• Adrian
  • Adrian
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  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-04-18
  • Posts: 542

Topic: Lets talk about yacht clubs

Recently, my wife and I have started talking seriously about getting back into boat ownership - most likely next summer, possibly not until next fall. We'll probably be getting into another Contessa 26 (hopefully we can find one as fine as #322 was!), should the right one come available.

But we've also been talking about yacht clubs. I've never belonged to one (neither has she, it goes without saying) and I'm not sure whether there are benefits to belonging for someone who is utterly not interested in racing. It is very expensive to belong, and I'm not sure there is enough value above and beyond the costs of boat ownership (which are already high).

What are your thoughts on yacht club membership for non-racers?

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  • From: nyc toronto
  • Registered: 2012-01-04
  • Posts: 163

Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

Adrian
I'm a non-racer at the National Yacht Club in Toronto. It costs me $3,000 a year, all-in for a boat my size, cheaper than several local marinas. It's on the mainland, so I can get there by streetcar day or night, I can walk from work, I can sneak down during my lunchbreak and get back to work before anybody notices I'm gone.
A club is good because it is multi-dimensional. I can talk boats or maintenance or techniques or any other topic, from books to software to wine.  It is a self-help club so I can help out with the workboat or the forklift or the garden or the workshop or the committees.   And it's big enough that I have a huge pool of people that share my interests.
I'd go for a club if you like people, if you want more than a marina can give you. But choose a club with like-minded people, that suits your taste.

  • Adrian
  • Adrian
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  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

That's definitely food for though Bertinol. I'm guessing the $3000 per year doesn't include the initiation fee, and presumably you're on a mooring at the National? It's those extra fees that make joining seem so expensive.

Which boat's yours? I cycle down there on occasion and the only Contessa I can think of seeing swinging on a mooring is (I think) Affinity, a dark hulled contessa. Is that you? If not, why aren't they on the board?!?

Not that there's a problem with moorings - certainly easier on the paint job than some docks I've been moored to.

My wife and I are attracted to the island. We sailed there once several years ago, and really enjoyed the feeling of being 'at the cottage' without having to leave the city. It's that isolation that appeals, though I am completely aware of the inconvenience of working on a boat that is only reachable by ferry!

Anyone else have any thoughts on yacht club membership?

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  • Registered: 2011-06-12
  • Posts: 137

Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

Hi Adrian,

I've done a cost analysis for all clubs and marinas west of the ABYC to Oakville.  I have a spreadsheet with all my numbers, including amortizing the initiation fees over different number of years.  I can tell you that it is, by far, cheaper to join a yacht club than to keep your boat in a marina.

I would prefer not to share all of my numbers publicly but would be happy to discuss them offline.

The biggest aspect of choosing a club is that you have to live with your decision for years in order to justify the costs.  That means you need to do the leg work to visit each club and get a feel for the membership.  In our little Lake Ontario Contessa Association, there are at least 5 clubs represented so you can get some second hand opinions.  Everyone has different needs so you'll need to choose one yourself.

I am a member of National (but my boat isn't), I'm also a member of Etobicoke.  They are both excellent but VERY different in nature; Different cultures completely and each group is quite happy with their own benefits and drawbacks.  It all depends on what you want to get out of your club.

FWIW, my calculations yielded costs from $1,281 -> $5,000+/yr for a Contessa.  However, the cash outlay is quite a bit higher due to recoverable debentures etc.  If you would like to meet at NYC or EYC for a beer, I would be happy to review my numbers with you in as much detail as you wish.

  • From: nyc toronto
  • Registered: 2012-01-04
  • Posts: 163

Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

Adrian
Oops. I tend to forget the one-time NYC initiation fee of $2,500, which can be spread out over many years. My $3000 annual cost includes summer swing mooring, winter storage and annual membership fee of $1,600. It includes stepping the mast, launch and haulout, pump-out, water taxi etc. Watch out because many marinas charge extra for these basic services -- ie Outer Harbour.
I'm not promoting the NYC -- You did ask!
Different yacht clubs are designed for different demographics -- some are for socializing, tennis, business networking and posh dinners, and they charge accordingly; Others are purely for sailors, and we know how cheap they can be!; and some offer a mix of real people and real sailors!
As for a swing mooring? I'd take it anytime. You bob away quietly with just the ducks and the geese and the herons flapping by; you swing with the wind; you sleep at night without the endless banging against the dock; you feel you are a million miles away, bobbing in splendid isolation (until a firetruck goes by on Lakeshore!). And if you're good, you can sail to and from the mooring without the motor. That's where the real skill comes in.

There are three Contessas at the NYC this year. Dark-blue HMS Affinity and my light-blue Whimsy on swing moorings and Free n Easy on a dock. Plus several more at the Alexandra yacht Club next door.

Come on down some Saturday and we'll give you a sailing tour of the Toronto clubs and marinas!

  • Registered: 2011-06-12
  • Posts: 137

Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

I'm a big fan of NYC and have been a member for... err.. 7 years?  Maybe more.  It has amazing facilities and has more services for your dollar than any other club than I could find.  It's not the least expensive; Your fees go to supporting extensive programs, full service restaurant and great location downtown.

As a boat owner, I chose to go with EYC.  I did so because I don't use many of the incredible services that NYC offers and therefore didn't get as much bang for my buck.  Also, I slept at NYC on the Contessa a couple weeks ago... the party boats and planes didn't lead to a quiet Saturday night.

EYC on the other hand is much simpler.  They have a BBQ every Friday night and the bar is open in the evenings.  But there's no full service restaurant, extensive race programs etc.  They do have junior sail program and a couple race nights, but not in the same quantity/variety as NYC.  On the plus side, it is extremely quiet and much nicer to enter/exit the harbour.  The wind protection in the harbour is much better as well, and you don't have to deal with the busy western gap.  The down side is that you are 4.5NM from Toronto Island, so sailing around it is a full day adventure, not a 2 hour affair.

  • Adrian
  • Adrian
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  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-04-18
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Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

Well, we should certainly get the owner of Affinity on the board! and not least of all because of the large patch of peeling paint on her starboard quarter.

I haven't noticed Whimsy, but I'm going to keep my eyes open for her now.

As for coming down some Saturday, I'll see what I can do. We need to have the baby first (due any time now!) and once we get back into a routine, I might be able to come down. Hopefully we can get things settled here before the sailing season is done.

I am curious to see the NYC. I bought my Contessa 26 at Alexandra in 2004, and really enjoyed sailing her out of there (was Labour Day weekend, just before the airshow, as I recall). I imagine the moored boats are a great place to watch the airshow from?

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  • Adrian
  • Adrian
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  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-04-18
  • Posts: 542

Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

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  • Registered: 2011-06-12
  • Posts: 137

Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

Yes, the airshow as well as fireworks.
From NYC's patio, you can see the propeller planes take off for the show, and NYC sits at the end of the "air box" so all of the jets do their turns right over top.  It's incredible.  The fireworks at Ontario Place area also a big hit.

Being on the mainland, there's no ferry... but also no pool and limited grass area for any sort of relaxing.

When travelling last summer, we appreciated yacht clubs / marina's that had pools... since you can't jump in the lake, spending long periods on the boat need some way to cool down in the heat of summer.  I didn't find a club with a pool that I could afford in Toronto. smile

  • Registered: 2011-06-12
  • Posts: 137

Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

  • Adrian
  • Adrian
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  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-04-18
  • Posts: 542

Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

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  • Registered: 2011-06-12
  • Posts: 137

Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

Being in the east end may make it more difficult to get to NYC (let alone EYC, Mimico, TSCC etc.)  Driving through downtown to get to the boat is no fun at all.

I'm much less familiar with the Bluff's, but all of my visits there have been very positive that have given me a positive view of the facilities, grounds and it would be some place I'd like to keep a boat.  My only concern would be the boring sailing... where's an island to sail around?!  ;-)

I'm not sure what your other options would be out east...

  • Adrian
  • Adrian
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  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Lets talk about yacht clubs

I am rarely bored on a sailboat smile

Getting downtown isn't that bad, really, in terms of traffic.

We'll set something up at some point guys. I've already managed to book off the weekend of Sept 8-9 to get down to the LOCA meetup at Ashbridges, so I'll probably be pushing my luck to ask for any more time.

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