Topic: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Hi Group,

I touched on this topic in the site support/comments section but I thought I'd officially ask all of you regarding  my seized piston rings on my Farymann K-30.  The mechanic at Bristol Marine has determined that seized piston rings seems to be the culprit for the low compression in my newly acquired Tessa and he's hoping that pouring Varsol down the cylinder will hopefully un-seize the rings after a couple of seasons on the hard.  Has anybody had a similar predicament on their engine and did it work?  I guess I'm just looking for a light at the end of tunnel as I'm dying to take her back to Hamilton to her proper slip.  As well, if this doesn't work, they'll have to pull the cylinder out which could cost up to a couple of grand.  Any feedback is welcome and thanks.

José

p.s. Welcome back, Shannon!

2 (edited by stefan_d 2006-06-03 04:53:24)

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

keep your eyes peeled for a used yanmar 1gm or start looking at bukh or even better a beta diesel..........

as far as your mechanic's diagnosis, its hard to say what the culprit is unless you pull the head and inspect and go from there.  theres a few things that can cause low compression, the most likely being that the thing needs a valve job.   how did he determine that the rings were sticking?  can't tell these things by feel.  could just require a valve job, or it could be the sleeve or rings that are wore out.  these things just wear out.

if you removed the injector and poured varsol into the top end, then i'd check the oil in a while or verify the level of varsol still in the cylinder.  if you've got varsol in the engine oil, leaking down past the rings (theres going to be some, but if it all just pours through) then you have a rings/sleeve issue.  if the cylinder holds the liquid and doesn't leak down too much/takes a while to leak down, then it's less likely that the rings are sticking, as theyve held water (varsol).  They could be just wore out.   How many hours on the engine??   Good luck!

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Now, how did I know that it was going to be stefan_d to respond first?  Great to hear from you.  The mechanic did a cursory check on the valves and didn't really know what was causing the low compression.  They seemed fine so he did exactly what you described.  He poured varsol down the top end and it pretty much just went down to the bottom which meant the piston rings weren't sealing which pretty much eliminates any significant compression needed to ignite diesel.  I've also been in contact with the ex-owner and he had the very same experience eight years ago when he bought it and it took him three weeks until she fired which tells me that the rings have a tendency to get stuck in their grooves.  He claimed that he added a fuel additive which un-gunks and frees debris from the system and I'm hoping that this is just deja vu.  After that, he never had a problem getting her started.  As far as wear, the boat was never really used much and it was re-built once in 1991 (from 1976) and put on the hard in 1995 where she sat for three years.  Judging from the fact that they run these engines 24-7 for generators and in the fields in Europe for wells, I rather think that wear would not be a likely factor from what I know regarding the chronology above.  I'm hoping that the rings free themselves but the head mechanic said that it could take another week or so of trying Varsol or other penetrating solvents to get her free and then we'll pull the cylinder out and see what's ailing her. They said that it could cost at least $ 2000.00 with parts and labour (Anybody know what a kidney goes for on e-Bay these days?). I don't mind re-powering her but not this year as the boat was pretty much an unexpected purchase.  If I can get at least one season out the Farymann then I'll be very happy to look at switching powerplants next year but you never know.  Miracles do happen, after all.  Thanks for the response, Stefan.

José

p.s. any tips on used yanmar 1gm, Bukh or Beta Diesels which fit Tessa please alert me.  Thanks all.

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

The standard practice to check if your low compression is from rings or a bad valve is to check compression(you will need a setup for a diesel).  If it is low compared to specification, shoot some oil into the cylinder and crank over to distribute the oilo over the rings.  Recheck compression.  If it jumps substantially, you have a ring problem(oil has helped to seal around rings).  If it does not, you probably have a bad valve.  If it is the rings and it is because they are stuck in their grooves in the piston, I have good luck with a product call Blaster.  It is a super penetrating oil that I have used to free up gasoline engines that have built up a light layer of rust and would not even turn.  Good luck.

John

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Hi John,

The mechanic decided against doing a true diagnostic as he wanted to try this what I described above first.  Where can I get "Blaster" and how long do you have to leave it before trying again?  Thanks for your feedback.

José

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Jose,

You can ususally get Blaster from most automotive parts stores.  I found it usually took about 1-3 days depending on the extent of corrosion.  I don't think yours should take too long since it is not corroded enough to keep the engine from turning over.

John

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Hi John,

Thanks for the piston rings vs. valves advice as well as the "Blaster" idea.  I think that I'll try putting in the fuel "anti-gunkadditive" in the gas tank as well as trying the "Blaster" for a few days and then I'll try that test that you were describing.  I'll keep you all posted on how she's doing.  Hopefully, she'll be coughing up some burnt diesel fumes sometime soon and I'll be sailing shortly thereafter.

José

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Hey Shannon!

Thanks for helping out!  The good news is that no saltwater has seeped in the cylinder as the boat's only sailed on fresh water which thank god rules out that possibility but then again it's Lake Ontario so one never knows. ;-)  I'm still hoping that it's just seized from non-use, rust, gunk, etc.  and hopefully with the collective efforts of my mechanic and all your collective sage advice plus some super penetrating lubricants, we could awaken the Frankenstein from within the Farymann.

Best Regards,

José

p.s. I like your idea of sailing into the sunset, Shannon.  I think we all do.

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Sailing into the sunset is looking like a viable option, I'll keep you all posted!

Did you try and hand start it?
I also found when I had a lowish battery, and also was being too kind to the engine, I didn't let it crank enough, and I thought it wouldn't start and I gave up...then the next day I was determined to start her, and after 20 mins of cranking and pumping...she started...this was before the rebuild too, so even though she had seepage and a hole almost right through the cylinder, she was still starting...  Having said that, in case yours gets worse with cranking....hmmm, a bit of a crapshoot...but....I would try and crank it a bunch of times, and they are harder to flood than gas engines, so not a big worry there... sometimes I have to pump my throttle 12 times before she'll catch (if she hasn't been running for a week or so)...and that's with her rebuilt engine.  So, lots of fuel, and make sure batteries are right charged up....but then you did say rings are slightly seized (varsol running right through) so....put a heater under it to warm it up?  I keep a light bulb under mine 24/7 in winter...keeps her warm....and if your mechanics are good, they know it's not stuck in gear somehow???, as then she will not start....
In the meantime, Jose, give the guys at Entec a call, they know their stuff and they are gruff but good guys - maybe they can give you a little tip that may help:
Entec West, Inc.
16710 SW 72nd
Portland, Oregon 97224
Phone Numbers:  Sales:  800-458-5065     Direct:  503-624-7118     Fax:  503-639-2764

Again, good luck...
(and no one can make my boat sell....)

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

11 (edited by JXG 2006-06-07 10:22:37)

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Re: Farymann K34M starting.  In over 5 years of ownership and regular use, we have never had any problems starting the engine.  We have been fortunate to have the engine start everytime on the first go (except when I have forgotten to open the fuel supply valve at the tank big_smile ).   

BTW: I can also vouch for my experience with the folks at Entec West.  I have had great support and prompt service when ordering the occasional replacement part for the engine.

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

The cutworms are in the hollyhocks, again!

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Dennis -

I had to laugh at your engine story... particularly the bit about leaking oil.  Varuna's 8hp Bukh engine is indeed a Ruggerini diesel too.  Although she starts instantly and runs flawlessly ( 4.5kn easy cruising speed with 2 blade prop and 5-5.5kn if pressed,) I was sad to discover an irritating oil leak around the throttle and engine-kill levers.  In 14 hrs of engine use thus far, she's leaked about 1/3 quart.... not intolerable, but I think I'll pull the engine to fix it before heading South this fall.  Sounds like you've got all bases covered as far as motive power goes.  Dink motors aren't to be laughed at.  Years ago when the Perkins 107 failed in our decrepit 42' S&S yawl, we pushed it through the 50 mile Dismal Swamp canal with the dinghy and it's 1 1/2hp British Seagull lashed alongside.

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

An hour ago I was swapping fuel filters and as I was cranking the engine could hear weird gurgling sounds.Cracked the air filter and salt water poured out,soo,I have the dreaded hole in my(farryman) head or the shot gaskets.This is a lot of water,so I think hole.Monday I fitted a sculling oar to the transom.Could this be a suiicide in response to my faithlessness in infernal cumbustion?Arrg......I was to leave for the summer two days ago.It would be nice to leave with a motor.Do I have any reason to hope,or should I heave this clunker and go with the  Charles Atlas auxillary propulsion system.Any advice would be greatly appreciated about now ,including a clue to any past streams Thanks Bill

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

Could cooling water have got back up the exhaust and in the cylinder by a open valve? If it is a cracked engine block there will probably be water in the oil.

Re: Seized Piston Rings=bad compression....

The engine is out now and I am mounting an outboard for the summer.This is what I have learned.The water jacket on the barrel is shot for the usual reasons.There does not appear to be a water jacket zinc so salt water sailors might want to purge the cooling system on the farryman if laid up by T ing off the intake.I did have water back up thru the exhaust system after a prolonged hand cranking session trying to recharge the fuel system.Something is a bit different about this diesiel than others I have had,r.e. getting fuel back up to the injector.Hand cranking does not create enough pressure to carry the water out of the wet muffler so that it backed up and filled the engine via the exhaust port,as evidenced by the gurgling sound and a rise in the oil level.The Vetus wet muffler has a drain in the bottom but is unreachable in this boat,so whatever goes back in,I will put a remote outlet on it .I now think this is a neccessity.Also the lift pump on this engine dosen't seem to work.As long as the alternator can be kept in good repair I will probably stick with this engine,but have to research that.I have added water tanks in the engine space to try and restore the trim which was just so before the weekend.O.K.,hopefully I will be gone tomorrow.