Topic: The nightmare of reversing

Whenever I enter a marina on my cruises, my first concern is how will I get out of it, for Blue Peter (1974 Contessa) has a mind on his/her own when it comes to backing out of a tight spot. Yes, there is prop walk to port (sometimes) which can be used (sometimes) to one's advantage but generally, Blue Peter goes in a direction which is frequently the most undesireable one. Full power, little power, full power and then neutral, and other combinations have all been tried - alas without consistent results. My last hope is a change of propeller (presently I have a three-bladed 12X10 RH) and wonder, before purchasing a feathering prop or a Campbell's prop what experience and/or advice the group may have. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Re: The nightmare of reversing

Ah yes, they tend to go where they want in reverse.  I reproped mine with a 3 blade 11 by 9 and it seems to work as well as any.  My solution has been to leave the boat in neutral and push her out of her slip from the dock, then jump on board and put her in forward to go on my merry way.  Perhaps not the technical solution you were looking for but it works for me.  That's the beauty of a small boat, you can move them around physically if you have to.  Best of luck. Jim R.

Re: The nightmare of reversing

Hee....heee!  Welcome to my world, Peter and I'm doing it with a two bladed prop!  I would have thought that a three blader would've given you more control but alas...I'm starboard to the dock so the prop walk in reverse jumps my stern to port and no matter if I'm hard over with the rudder to convince Tessa  to go starboard to prevent a collision with the adjacent boat, it takes up to 5 painful seconds before the boat actually tracks in reverse so what I've learned to do is to loop my stern line around the last cleat (not too tightly as the bow will have a tendency to to to port!) on the dock and back to the boat where I  run it back to the stern cleat temporarily.  At this point, I have only two lines connecting the boat to the dock which are my forward spring and my stern line and I have the engine running in neutral to prepare to reverse out of my dock.  I then release the forward spring and have the stern line in my hand for control and I gently put the transmission in reverse at the slowest possible engine speed without stalling.  What happens is what usually happens.  The stern kicks off to port but I'm controlling the stern with the stern line around a dock cleat returning to the boat and I'm slowly paying out as the boat moves to the general direction of reverse but maintaining some tension on the line as to counter the prop walk.  Eventually, the prop does it's job and actually tracks in reverse and at this point, with a snap of the wrist, I free the stern line from the dock cleat and as I can now control the boat with the rudder.  The secret here is to go as slow as possible so that you do have time to correct anything that may go awry such as the bow going too far off to port because I'm pulling excessively on my control stern line.  This, by the way, is easily corrected when you shift the boat in reverse and the stern pops to port, the bow, of course counters to starboard or just simply go forward and steer the boat accordingly while you hang on to the control stern line and start again.  For the reverse situation when you're starboard to dock, just reverse the control stern line set up and use the piling between the two docks or use a boat hook to push off your stern as prop walk occurs until the boat is ready to track in reverse, then, use your rudder.  Hope this helps.  You don't know how embarassed I was as I took out my wife and 2-1/2 year old for the very first time and this horror show happened.  Never again.

Re: The nightmare of reversing

Oops!

For the reverse situation above, I meant to say when you're port to dock not starboard to dock.  Cheers, y'all!

José

5 (edited by Virago Deb 2006-09-19 18:34:06)

Re: The nightmare of reversing

This discussion makes me yearn for the days of olde when we had moorings...

I've only had a season and bit with Virago so far, so I too am learning just how much fun backing up a Contessa can be...but here's what I've found works so far for getting out of my slip (I mean getting the boat out of her slip!).  It involves using the wind, and a bit of the old heave-ho as Jim R. described.  I don't think it matters what side of the dock you use with this technique, although I suspect being port side to (as Virago is) helps because of the prop walk.  Ok, here goes....

Lets assume that all slips accessable by foot are attached to the land at one end, we'll call this end the "shore", and that the other end is open to seaward and we'll call this end "seaward".  This is written by a single-hander so there is no reference to crew.  Crew is handy but not a given.  What is a given is that these boats weathercock somewhat, that means that any wind that's blowing will move the bow downwind relative to the stern.

First scenario - wind is blowing from shore to seaward.  Walk the boat out of the slip as far as possible, hop on and use reverse enough to get the boat clear of the slip and neighbouring boats.  At this point you don't have to get the stern anywhere in particular,  all you are doing is trying to get the bow clear of obstacles so it can swing down wind and point to seaward.  Obviously the more room the better and if she's behaving back up as far as you can, but as long as the bow has room to swing clear you're ok.  Once clear of the slip, put the engine in neutral and let the boat naturally weathercock in the direction you want it to go.  It seems that sometimes the best thing to do is to remove the disruptive forces of the reversing prop. and rudder as soon as possible and let the boat sort itself out for a minute, then use the more effective forward forces when she starts to come around.  This is also my preferred technique if the wind is blowing from the stern (blowing the boat into the slip) as the weathercock effect will help the boat back up straighter so I can go back farther for more swing room.

Second scenario - wind is blowing from seaward to shore.  This has the potential to be way more embarassing.  Again, the trick is to get enough room to let the boat do what it wants to do naturally, which means the bow will swing down wind.  Get the boat out of the slip as above, but now the bow wants to swing towards shore.  Usually the boat will want to reverse hard in one direction or the other, usually to port because of the prop walk.  Let it.  Keep the stern coming around hard until it is facing the row of slips you just left- what you are trying to do is gain swinging room for the bow.  Once you are facing stern-to-stern with your neighbours a few boats down, use the engine in forward to initiate the turn out to sea.  This is also my preferred technique for when the wind is blowing on the bow when in the slip because the bow will fall off one way or the other as I am trying to back out anyway, so I just let it happen and back all the way around to get room to manoever the bow.   This is also the technique I use to recover when I farkle things up using the first technique...

This may sound like I have everything under control, which would be a lie.

Re: The nightmare of reversing

As mentioned the key element in boat control is steerage way which takes some time to happen with such a small engine.You need to anticipate where the boat is going to go depending on wind and current that day,something that will come with time.The more wind and current the more you need way,unless of course it is pushing you,which personally I find the most hair raising or falling as it were..If you are uncomfortable ,handlining theboat out and stepping aboard from the bow works for exiting a finger slip.I find the boat handles very predictibly in calm conditions .

Re: The nightmare of reversing

How about this (stolen from the oarclub forum on how to get out of a
slip and through a narrow waterway, dead upwind, without an engine): set
a kedge anchor with light chain so it lays on the bottom.  Fix the
inboard end at your slip.  Just pull yourself out, leaving the chain on
the bottom as you go.

Marc

Re: The nightmare of reversing

Ran out of time at the libary.I meant to add:With a full keeled boat The helm should almost always be amidships when reversing.You correct your line of travel by putting the boat in forward momentarily and putting the helm down to line the boat up and then reversing again.Ideally the boat will not gather any forward momentum and you will back up in the desired direction.You will loose a tiny bit to one side each time depending on which way your boat walks.If you try and use more than a degree or two of helm to steer while in reverse,the rudder will suddenly bite and swing the bow around fairly sharply.Unless that is what you want it is best to hold the tiller amidships.The engine is really an auxillary on this boat meant to get it back to port not a maneuvering device so there is no shame at all in pushing the boat in and out of the slip by hand if that is the sensible thing to do,and it often is.Commericial fishind boats here always have a breast line tied amidships that is the first and last thing to be tied to the dock.It snubs the boat and draws it in sideways in an orderly fashion.This is an especially good thing if you have wind or current behind you.Some places it is hopeless to try and power this boatin or out of a slip.....You can counter the prop walk somewhat by making an "S" turn when entering a slip.This takes a little experience.If the boat walks to starboard and you are making aport tie you approach at say a twenty degree angle after turning in,and about ten feet from where you want to stop with the bow very close to the dockyou swing the bow out and put the boat in reverse.The monteum of the stern coming around cancels the prop walk.This is more of a power boat manouver and I have to admit it dos;ent always happen that way,which is when a breastline or a boat hook could come in handy,not to mention a shipmate and some fenders.

Re: The nightmare of reversing

And please read breast line as spring,duh.

Re: The nightmare of reversing

most engines including the vire engine use a hydraulic clutch.
this means when you are floating forwards, you may have just shifted into reverse at low revs, but the cones in the box wont bite together without a blip of the throttle.

same for going ahead from astern

same for folding props.

this worstens with worn gearboxes and cones..

so remember to blip the throttle after changing gear, listen for the biting sound, the drop in revs resultant, and the consequent speed change before dropping the revs.

Nick Le Feuvre B.Eng Maritime Technology, Vire Engines 01202 470184