Topic: Pintles

I have 4 on my rudder. I custom made 2 of them (stainless obviously) at a local metal shop and oversized them. I can't give you any dimensions but if you take the first gudgeon out and ask them to make a new one after that model it'll be easy. As for the pintle they made 2 "wings" with two bolts going through the rudder and a pintle to fit the gudgeon.
It's very easy for a metal shop to make them once you give them at least a drawing with some aproximate dimensions.

Re: Pintles

Four?  To quote the Holy Grail "Four is too may.  Five is right out".  Why four?  Is there something specific you are concerned about?

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I have three factory pintles on my rudder..and I bough factory bronze bolts to replace the warped ones....mine are bronze, so make sure you do bronze with bronze...I agree, take off your old one (tie your rudder on WELL to the boat! 
I don't know that you would have room for four...remember they have to go through the hull, so you will have four attachements through the hull.

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I would like to know where I could buy one bronze pintle and gudgeon to fit on my Contessa.. similar to the original, in Canada or US.
Also, that third set, where is it the best place to locate it on the ruder, is anyone has pictures of an installation. Thanks.

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To my knowledge, there are none available from anywhere.  I had looked into having some cast and machined but the quantities would have to be quite high in order to write-off the pattern costs. There are actually three separate castings needed. one pintle (embedded type) and two gudgeons.  Location?  I'll email a pic.

Re: Pintles

I have 5 on hull 91 , 3 above and 2 below the prop, I don't know where the original owner had them made, but that was probably 10 or more years ago. I can send you a picture if you want.

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Why cast and machined?  Why not just machined from billet stock.  I've got the rudder off my JJT boat, and unfortunately havn't given much of a thought to it or looked at it in all that much detail.  It's on the job list, but among about another billion things to address I;ve first got to finish patching the hole I cut in the hull (starboard side, after removing the liner,  in the galley area where there was a nice fire) - pictures to come eventually.  Anyways, from what I recall, the gudgeons should be fairly easy to machine, and the pintles are just pins welded to some sheet ( < .250) stock that is bent and has some holes in it.  Could make the pintles out of stainless and the gudgeons as well, with a nice nylatron (wear resistant, glass or otherwise reinforced nylon.  and it machines really nice) bushing or something of the sort.  I'm reluctant to take on "new" or "side" projects as my progress on my "project" (boat) is more than a bit depressing, but if there is sufficient demand...  Cheers all.

Re: Pintles

The objective here was to make replacements that appeared  "original".  The pintle is a bronze casting that is embedded in the rudder casting.  The original had an area of weakness where it exited the rudder.  The new casting is designed to be very rugged in this critical area and also allow for the future replacement of a worn pin. But you could make them any way you want.

Re: Pintles

After having a look at some other pictures, I now do realize that the pintles on my boat are not stock.  I suppose I should have gathered this by the fact that it's not the original rudder (the lady that owned the boat before me had the rudder break at the waterline.  She was in a storm just off of Hawaii...).  The replacement rudder that was built is bulletproof, and my pintles are well overbuilt as well.  I think I'll add a third.  Overbuilt isn't always bad.....

Re: Pintles

I have the original three that came on #322, but on close inspection this spring, discovered that the pintles themselves are nothing more than threaded bolts with pinned nuts holding them.

Consequently there is far more play than I like. I'm going to have some sized pins machined this winter to replace them. Threaded rod for a load bearing pin? Did they come that way from the factory?

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“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

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Oh, I forgot to say: I drilled my bolts myself to accept the cotter pin. No problem.
You might have to get gudgeons machined if you want exact....however, I would likely go to a used (or new) boat store and get one that would work, as many boats have outboard rudders.

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: Pintles

I have read a great deal about a third pintle on the CO26 rudder. Has anyone performed this mod? Where can I buy the right sized pintle and associated gudgeon. (Must be the same as the one fited)

Thanks in advance.

CO92. FBYC

Re: Pintles

Ok, free pics of sleek, shiny, newly machined pintles and a REAL third gudgeon...new owner of my boat has someone (have asked who, waiting for answer)  doing an amazing job....(I am very happy about that part of things)
And I am trying to figure from the pictures which gudgeons are new and which are just polished...I'll get that answered too.  (Ummm, doesn't everyone paint their pintles/gudgeons with bottom paint, like me?!)

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: Pintles

When I get time,I plan to glass a shoe with a socket in it to the back of the keel .This would recieve a bronze pin attached to the bottom of the rudder.The socket could be Lignum Vitae,nylon,carbon or whatever is easiest and long wearing.That would seem to address most of the issues other than weight.

Re: Pintles

I too had thought of adding a shoe to the bottom aft of the keel but have since decided its too risky. If the keel ever came aground the shoe could possibly be bent enough to prevent operation of the rudder. I am, however, adding a strip of heavy rubber to the bottom of the keel so that it overlaps the gap between the keel and the rudder. This will prevent snagging any underwater lines. That was my main concern with the rake of the rudder.
                                               Cheers
                                                  John

.                               ,,,,,
                               (o o)
------------------oOO---(_)---OOo------------------

Re: Pintles

Varuna had a fiberglass batten screwed with two small stainless screws to the aft end of the keel to bridge the rudder gap.... that is, the batten was there when I launched her.  BUT, on a downeast cruise this summer to Penobscot Bay ( where there is a lobster pot to avoid about every 200'!), I was sailing in rising winds using the monitor and suddenly ground to a halt, and a quick inspection showed I'd snagged a pot.  Well... with the sails down, Varuna lay stern to the wind and waves were crashing into the cockpit.  I groped with the boathook ( no visibility due to the waves) and when I finally found the line, the tension was too much to pull it to the surface.  I eventually duct taped a knife to the boat hook, leaned over the stern ( getting soaked) and cut the pot free.  Lucky there was no lee shore!  Must find a new solution as there are pots everywhere in Maine.
Sam

Re: Pintles

The shoe on the bottom is astandard solution.Enough trama to remove that little nub would likely as not be enough to sink the boat and actually adds some grounding protection to the rudder.The materials to do the job would be less than a hundred bucks.While it is nothing to brag about I plowed over a reef at seven knots with my last boat.That boat drew four and a half feet,the reef had less than three feet over it.Damage to the supported rudder,nil.Incidentally,this was a full keeled boat as well,the best for reef bashing.

Re: Pintles

We hauled Over Draft II out this weekend.  I discovered a lttle bit of play in the lower brass gudgeon (w/ stainless pintle) -- probably about 1/16 " play.  The upper gudgeon/pintle seems tight, no play.  Being a newbie to all this, if I were to remove the lower gudgeon, what is the step by step procedure?  My goal would be to have a new one machined as a replicate of the original, or even bore it and put in a brass sleeve.  Is the "thru hull", lower gudeon bolted on the inside?  Does one just "unscrew" it using a large pipe wrench?  What's the best way to go about removing it without damaging the hull?  And, any pixs that anyone has of their gudgeon/pintles, I would appreciate.

Re: Pintles

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Thanks for this info.  I'll be getting a closer look at under the stuffing box this Sat.  And I'll take measurements.  Also, glad to know that the pintles may just press out after drilling set pin.  I'll post an update after I take a closer look at all this with it cleaned up.  Doesn't seem as frightening as my look indicated.  Thanks.  Don

Re: Pintles

Does anyone know what the pintles on the rudder look like on the inside and how they are attached/removed from the rudder? 

Thanks.  Joe

Re: Pintles

Five pintles and gudgeons?  If that rudder ever grounded out I would be afraid it would rip the whole back end of the keel off.  I myself bounced off of a coral head in the bahamas.  Actually my rudder did and it came off with that extreme force.  The cotter pins were pulled right through the pintles.  I anchored quick and followed the rudder and re-atattched.  I hair raising experience to say the least.  So in my opinion that rudder should be able to be forced off without taking the ass of the keel with it.  It should be held in with heavy enough cotter pins to keep her safe at what the sea has to offer.  I have seen people drill the hole on the gudgeon and put a big fat nut and bolt rather than a cotter pin.  That is scary to me.   I have two stations on my rudder and they are very sound and I keep a close watch on them.  However a am confident in their seaworthyness.  Two, maybe three, but five.

Re: Pintles

Looking at many older designs,the rudder was always afew inches less deep than the keel and rounded up at the back,with a shoe to support the bottom.You had to work really hard at damaging that configeration.While I think this rudder design is probably more hydro dynamic,it seems to be quite vulnerable as at least two of these boats have had the rudder ripped off.That should'nt happen .When I have time mine is getting a heavy duty shoe on the bottom,and maybe reshaping the bottom so that it dosen't sustain the kind of loadind that would damage the boat or peel the rudder.Boats go aground,and that rudder is about the only thing that worries me on an otherwise confidence inspiring boat.

Re: Pintles

Jeremy Rogers designed 'em with a substantial shoe casting at the back edge of the keel with a pin on the bottom of the rudder.

  I know it was original as after 40 years, ours had de-zinced and we phoned Jeremy for ideas.  He said he'd seen one around his yard somewhere and after he'd looked it out and sorted out a price with us, we duly received a NOS 'factory fresh' casting,  only needing the pivot hole bored and holes for the retaining pins through the keel. I  belive it was probably the last spare one in the country so anyone else will need to get a pattern made and get one cast.  Its not really a job you want a stainless fabrication for  as if it got bent it could jam the rudder.  I suppose it could be made that way, but I'd be concerned as well by crevice corrosion. 

The pivot pin on the rudder protrudes enough and the pivot hole is high enough on the heel casting to amount to about 2" clearence for the bottom of the rudder from a level surface so unless you are daft enough to reverse into a (or dry out on) a rock its pretty well  protected.

There are only two pintles in through bolted (with GRPed in nuts) gudgeons on the hull, one just above the prop and the other high up on the transom.  The  rudder itself is solid wood, probably teak.