• From: Massachusetts
  • Registered: 2006-03-07
  • Posts: 97

Topic: head removal / concrete ballast

I have just finished removing the head and all the assorted plumbing to make room for a far simpler porta-potti type head. Because of the flair of the hull if mounted in the same place the porta-pottie will have to be mounted so that the seat is higher then the original head. This leaves your feet dangling. Any suggestions? Located in front of the vee berths is one possibility but that is a little to close to the berths for my olfactory sensitivities.
Part of this project is to remove the one to two inches of concrete I have, much to my surprise, found that has been poured on the top of the lead keel that  forms  the bottom of the holding tank.  This concrete has also run down between the lead and the fiberglass on both sides of the keel, the length of the keel, a thickness of about 1/2 inch. I won't be able to remove this so I hope to remedy this entire situation by removing and cleaning out as much of the concrete as possible and then covering the lead with an inch or two of epoxy I trust will seal the whole thing. I will replace the inspection port with two hatches below the hatches in the cabin sole. This former holding tank will be a good place for flexible tanks of water or fuel.
What do you know about concrete in the bilges of Contessas and or replacing factory installed heads with porta-potti types?

  • From: Ottawa, On
  • Registered: 2005-03-10
  • Posts: 353

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

concrete???  what year is your contessa?

stefan_d's Website

  • From: Chesapeake Bay
  • Registered: 2006-09-14
  • Posts: 79

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

I am in the middle of a similar effort.  Am building a platform on which the Thetford will be secured, which in turn is secured between the bulkheads and on cross members secured in the same bolt positions of the old head, plus one, which on mine cross the 24" span of the entire locker at 6" increments.  The platform will lift out in order to access the space below, nicely separated into 6" by 12" storage areas (about 3" deep), as well as additional depth in the front 4" which will become a bin of sorts - I saved the old backing for the locker to rebuild a front which matches the opposite wet locker in height, and expect to insert a similar horizontal piece as is found on the front of the wet locker as a brace.  I expect to use this space for three canvas tool rolls (with tools of course).  The bin will hold all the random small clamps, etc. securely without too much fuss.

To your question - feet may be easily rested on the horizontal piece.  All closes up nicely in the original space with original doors.  As an aside I will build a drop down top behind the head for additional nav space with cubbies behind for nav tools, which gets me to the hardest part of the job, installing an additional LED light in there.

Mind you, I've only removed the head and taken measurements thus far preparing to build in the off season...

FYI on holding tank.  Been going back and forth on how to best use that space.  I've been a bit concerned about putting anything potable in there, and settled on using same space for a locker for the heaviest stuff, especially anchor chain, in order to keep that weight as low and as centered as possible.  Am also going to secure a larger volume fixed pump on the underside of the hatch in the sole there for emergencies...flip the hatch over, slip end of hose already led into the deepest part of the bilge just aft, throw the exit hose into the cockpit, and go at it.  Noodling whether there might be a way to convert the existing head pumpout (which of course now is unnecessary) into the exit for this emergency pump so that in such emergency it would be possible to pump out with the cabin secured (ie. no boards removed to cockpit).  The issue is how to lead the hose without having to follow the same path as the existing head hose, which I feel may be too long for a pump, assuming the pump is even able to lift the water up the 5' to the level of the head pump out.

  • From: Massachusetts
  • Registered: 2006-03-07
  • Posts: 97

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

My boat was built in January  1986.
I failed to mention that the concrete was covered with what seems like gelcoat without the fiberglass. The lead doesn't  fill the f/g keel very well (1/2" clearance on one side, 1" clearance on the other side running fore and aft) this void being filled with  concreete then topped off with another 1 to two inches of concrete forming the bottom of the holding tank. This was then covered with what just seems to be gelcoat. The  gelcoat  and concrete were broken and easily removed by hand thru the 8" inspection port into this area (holding tank).
Perhaps many, or some other, co26's have concrete in their bottoms, unknown to their owners because of this gelcoat covering. 
Concrete has been used in many boats, but a JJT co26???

  • From: Belle River, Ontario
  • Registered: 2005-03-20
  • Posts: 143

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

WOW!

Can we get to see some pictures of this endeavour... it sounds like allot of work and something I would rather not get into.... but if I was too.... it would be nice to know a head of time what to look for.

Thanks
Jose

  • From: Massachusetts
  • Registered: 2006-03-07
  • Posts: 97

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

Oh yes I am trying my best to keep the  work to a minimum but this just looks so bad, unfinished, not structurally right. 
My plan is to cut a rectangle hole in the top of the holding tank the same dimension as the cabin sole hatch just above it. The only access to the holding tank is now thru the sole hatch and the 8" inspection plate/cover directly beneath. I won't need the waterproof inspection cover any longer because I won't be using this as a holding tank.
I will then have to do all my concrete removal and cleaning thru this rectangular cut. Pouring in the epoxy should not be a big deal, I hope. I will just make a rectangular f/g cover for the cut hole.
I will try to get some pictures but can't be sure what they will show anything other then the 8" inspec. cover.
Where can  I can borrow an endoscope ?

  • From: Massachusetts
  • Registered: 2006-03-07
  • Posts: 97

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

Golliwobbler:
Mounting a manual pump on the bottom of he sole hatch, flipping the hatch then pumping sounds like a good idea for the use of this space. I don't think you could use the former head thru hull for discharge because the pump and discharge would be below the waterline. The water would siphon back into the boat, I think...Being able to discharge into the cockpit sounds good especially if you could work out something so you wouldn't have to remove the wash boards. How about a hole  in the wash boards with some kind of one way port for discharge. Even a small plastic inspection port...
I'm talking about bailing and my boat hasn't seen water for three years.

  • From: Chesapeake Bay
  • Registered: 2006-09-14
  • Posts: 79

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

not thinking about the thru-hull...thinking about the pumpout on the deck (one of the two capped holes on starboard mid-ship - one for filling the water tank, the other for pumping out the head) capped off like the fuel tank fill.

  • From: Montreal
  • Registered: 2005-04-22
  • Posts: 259

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

I am just picking up on the question of the head being too high for one's feet.  On my Contessa I had all sorts of trouble with a leaky Brydon Boy head.  It was original to the boat and its base was through bolted to the liner before the boat was assembled.  To make a long story short I took a chainsaw to the thing as an expeditious way to remove the base. 

Anyway, I found that the Brydon Boy was too high and when I replaced the head I took advantage of the hole by lowering the head.  It made the head much more comfortable and my solution used up a dead space on the boat.  (Dead spaces are a pet peeve of mine -- our boats are two small not to make use of every nook.

The photos in the gallery tell the story.  I used an old deck hatch that someone was pitching as my new base.  As a recycled part, it has a few extra holes.  It was my intention to test the system and then replace the plexiglass.  However, it works like a charm and I have many other projects that I want to pursue before I go back to this one. 

Good luck guys -- I look forward to seeing your stowage solutions for this space.

  • From: Massachusetts
  • Registered: 2006-03-07
  • Posts: 97

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

Christopher,
I'm 6' so the head wasn't to high for me, but, my 5' wife! You probably know how important this may be to her..
The base of the Brydon head is the only thing that hasn't been removed. Same problem. Two bolts came out but the other two did not. The nuts under the inaccessable liner are turning. I plan on using a Sawzall with the longest hacksaw blade to cut the bolts, not the liner. I am trying to remove the head leaving the liner intact because I plan on using the liner as the base for the porta-potti. I don't think, am I wrong, that there is enough room below the liner to make cutting the liner out,  then having to make a new base, worthwhile.
What kind of head did you replace the Brydon with?

  • From: Montreal
  • Registered: 2005-04-22
  • Posts: 259

Re: head removal / concrete ballast

Just posted the last two images.  Another way I have seen to solve this problem is to cut a 4" access port on the surface that faces you immediately below the head pedestal.  However it will not allow you to lower the bowl and seat.  I am 5'11" and appreciated the extra few inches of shoulder and head room.

FYI, I used the chainsaw to start the hole because I could not get the Brydon base to cut neatly with the sawzall.  I then finished it with a jig saw. 

Pay attention when you cut from above.  The turn of the liner at the edge of the pedestal is effectively the hull.  There is not a lot of room.  As you can see from the pics, I chopped up part of the base of my head for this installation.  Grind and fit, grind and fit.   Be careful not to hole the thing.

My head is an old Raritan PHII that I picked up at a boat yard sale.  It is much better engineered than the Brydon and is a plastic version of the fabulously expensive bronze heads.  Definitely the best $15 I have spent on the boat!  I did not even need a rebuild kit!  Because of a leak, I did have to spend $40 on a small check valve that controls the air entering the pump chamber when one is emptying the pump bowl.  Not a lot but the drip was annoying and difficult to stop because the valve is below the waterline.  As we enter the off season, I would watch eBay for a replacement head.  I just missed on a bronze one last week.  I don't recommend it, but if you want to reinstall your Brydon, I can send you a base from my collection of parts. 

I would not want to mount the bowl much lower than I have done here.  As I alluded to above, the installation is low in the boat, and below the waterline.  If the water level equalizes then the bowl fills to about four inches below the rim.  Because of sloshing, I pump the bowl dry whenever possible.

The next head project for me is probably going to be a small sink on the back of the door.

Good luck!