Topic: How old are your sails?

My sails are 25 years old and the main sail is very baggy.  Have not yet went out any got any quotes but about 15 years ago my father had a storm jib made by Andrew Soper - the storm jib is still in very good shape and I don't remember the price - though it must have been reasonable if my father bought from them.  Andrew Soper is involved in a company called Kingston Sail Loft - you might want to get in touch with them -of course they are in Kingston - jcsails@kingston.net

Ivan Ross

Ivan Ross "Morava" #266

Re: How old are your sails?

Let me know what you find, I think mine are at least 25 years old.

Re: How old are your sails?

Re: How old are your sails?

You guys still have more "accessible" boat show prices and items there.  Here in Vancouver, they only had ONE sailboat in the big stadium!!  Of course there was the floating show...but, I'm not really interested in $250,000+ sailboats, I don't even like the looks of them!  (Except a Bristol Channel Cutter, of course! ;-)  All we have here are Beneteaus and Hunters at our shows...nothing you can really go offshore in (Unless you are Andy Copeland of course! ;-) (Local circumnavigator/ racer/fighter pilot, and a Brit- those sorts of guys can do anything!)
We have some good sail lofts, but you are right, there will be one that will be 1/3 the price...we have two small, good guys and of course five big, expensive good guys...mind you, one of them mixed up the J and I on my PHRF form, and the guy at the sailing assn. had to fix it!!!

My hank-on headsails are crispy new feeling, but are from 1985, my main is 1998, my roller furling genoa is 2000, my cruising chute is 1998.  I think...(invoices at the office! ;-)
What was the question again?!
Oh...my roller furling is a 135%. 
Main is fully battened, slight roach, three reefs, leech cord, loose-footed. 
Prices: not cheap...I don't recall any sail being under $1,500. (haven't looked at old receipts lately.)
I am very hapy with the sails, they are very nice!
I also like the hank-ons, and am trying to figure how to fit them in 'the wardrobe".

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: How old are your sails?

Re: How old are your sails?

Hmmm, that's the same thing I was thinking....I even have two holes already in my stemhead area...I will likely practice it both ways, as I like the ideas of both roller furl and hank on...and yes, I am an idiot who likes to go forward in crappy weather...really.

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: How old are your sails?

tacking a storm jib between the roller furler genoa seems like a tricky proposition in heavy weather.

Re: How old are your sails?

I used to have a dual headstay rig on my old trimaran and it worked well.  There was about 8" between stays.  I had a furler with a #2 genoa or working jib on the inner, and used the outer for hank-on sails, either bigger light-air sails or a storm jib.  In either case I led the lazy sheet out and around the forestay rather than thru the foretriangle and jibed rather than tacked.  Jibing rather than tacking was safer in heavy weather and much easier with the big drifter... just couldn't short tack up a channel that way though!

Re: How old are your sails?

I don't know about the rest of you, but #322 has a pretty old set of sails - 22 years old!

While research and talking to the previous owner has indicated that the boat was on the hard for a rather lengthy time (maybe as long as ten years!) the sails are a little baggy and old.

While at the Toronto Boat Show, I talked to the guys at the North Sails booth, who quoted me what I consider an astronomical price for a new headsail and roller furling unit. This quote alone has caused me to rethink a new suit of sails, but I am currently seeking quotes from other lofts nearby to verify (or discount) North's quote.

How old are your sails? If you got new sails in the last five years or so, how much did you pay for them? Are you happy with them? What sizes?

Re: How old are your sails?

If you are looking for top quality sails at a reasonable price look at the British sailmakers. The Canadian Dollar is under $2 to the pound right now and by exporting the sails you pay no British taxes.
I bought a new performance main($1200) and furling genoa($800) recently from Ivan Bole at Arun Sails in the UK and can't recommend them highly enough(www.sailmakers.com). Ivan made me a performance main in Tan when no one around here would. Try getting Tan sails in Canada and they want to charge extra.
Yes it is scary doing your own measurements and hoping the sails won't come cut short, but mine came perfectly sized and made. If you have a Rogers boat the sails are usually smaller so the price would be less.
Tip for buying in England....order during the London Boat Show(first 2 weeks in Jan) or the Southampton Boat Show(first two weeks in Sep) and get the discount rates they give at show time.

11 (edited by ShannonRHIANNON 2006-03-02 22:49:28)

Re: How old are your sails?

Hi Guys: Re: Cody comment about tacking storm sail:

What I would like to do (in a perfect world) is have the roller furling stay forward of the wire stay - with the wire stay being a heavy-duty clip on tack, and obviously being clipped to the toerail (or mast) while using furling.  Then, when I storm came up, I would drop the furled sail, (or leave it furled if near home) clip in the "inner forestay", and then put up my storm sail (or 90% reefable)  Does that make sense, or am I dreamin'?!
Yes, I realize I'd have to feed my luff-tape headsail back in at a calmer time...but I would likely leave it down while offshore in what may be a crappy day/week, so I would then just put up my 110 once lighter airs came back.(and learn to use the cruising chute, ha ha!)  And then once it got really calm, feed r.furl genny back in and start all over?!

Bill, I think the tri would handle twin headsails better than our boats...not sure I would want to twin them....am feeling kinda chicken about them pulling the mast down?  Am I being a baby?

Suggestions?

By the way, our Can$ is really strong compared to the US....so practically anything is a good buy for us Canadians right now.

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: How old are your sails?

Re: How old are your sails?

So one could use either a double headfoil system....or one that incorporated two headstays?

I know this topic has deviated from how old are your sails, but  in having said that, I would use my OLD r.f. genny and the new one at the same time for a 270% foretriangle, (2x135%) heh heh!!  THAT should get her going down wind....must say the first time I experienced the real "downwind roll" it was a bit nervewracking!

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: How old are your sails?

The downwind roll you speak of... If that happened with a main and jib wing on wing, then just pull in the main in 15 or 20 degrees and it should stop.  I have had it quickly build up to the point of rolling back and forth from port rail in the water to starboard rail in the water in seconds. Exciting, but....

Re: How old are your sails?

Thanks for the tip!  Yes, in fact the roll was gunwale to gunwale, and I was starting to think...what happens next?!
I just did some thinking as this was another first for me, I then realized I could head up a bit, which was in reality pulling in the main a bit, but if I want to continue downwind, I will practice just pulling in the main...I can't wait to get her back in the water again! ;-)

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: How old are your sails?

We bought new main for our JR Contessa about 7 years ago, Doyle sails in the BVI, for about $750 --battened.  It has held up beautifully. They research the measurements and then did a physical measurement--the two matched.  I suspect North would be about the same.

New 110 jib, five or so years ago, hank on, was about $580.  Our 135 is at least 15 years old and still perfect.

Diane

Re: How old are your sails?

Suselle's 3 reef main has a few miles on it and I'm researching the possibilty of having a new one made. I'm wondering if there is a benefit to collaborating and dealing with one loft. Anyone?

TG

Re: How old are your sails?

Here's a heads up: I had my mainsail measured by the loft that had built it, as I was registering for my PHRF, and he either measured wrong or transposed the numbers!!!  And that was after putting in the third reef, which I have not tied in yet (boat still on hard and mad at me) ....so I take the numbers the owner of the sail loft (whom I will not name yet!) and give them to BC Sailing who calculate PHRFs, and they head guy from BCS calls me and sounds kind of puzzled, and politely asks me if I know my dimensions of sails, etc...so when we examine the numbers, sure enough, the measurements are wrong!!!  So...my point is: what if I had gotten them to make a new sail at the same time?!?!  I now know to hover over and approve the measuring, then view it once its cut, etc!   Sheesh!  You don't want an upside-down sail!   
So, I would go with a loft who you feel comfortable with....if the guy seems distracted or nervous...which this guy did, I learned not to go there!  Especially when his neighboring business tried to pick a fight with me when I parked near their work truck they were unloading steel from....and the sail guy says "oh, that happens all the time" when I asked him about it!   I will never go back to that loft... they also didn't seem to be able to deal with women...I was there first, and some guy came in after me and tried to literally push past me and talk to who I was talking with....I had to actually say to both the loft guy and rude customer "Ummm, in case you hadn't noticed, I am talking about my sails right now"...sheesh!!!

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: How old are your sails?

I had Shure Sail of Pensacola make me a new mainsail with three reefs and then they sewed a blue reef cover strip on the luff and foot of my 120% genoa.
I don't know about you guys but a 120% foresail is plenty enough for my Contessa 26. If the full genoa and main won't drive her it's Yanmar time!

The cutworms are in the hollyhocks, again!

Re: How old are your sails?

Is there a measurement for  a rollerfurling jib for 26?  You guys recommend 135?  My hank on genny was way too large- i need a sail between that one and the jib, really considering roller furl...which sail companies actually ended up being the best after above discusion?

Re: How old are your sails?

Weirdly enough,I measured my meager inventory,and inspected the furler to see how much hassle it was to get rid of today.The jenny is 31 on the luff and13.5 on the foot.How about a reefing 110.The furler has much to reccomend it but I am never happy with the shape in a strong breeze going to weather.My impression is that it is the people not the company that matter .North could be great in one town and suck in another.The person that gave great service may move to another company.Wre fortunate to have some really great companies in Victoria.My understanding is that all the sails are made offshore now.I  will almost certainly get mine through the local loft ,U.K. in this case as they did a great job in the past and showed great patience with my idiot questions,i.e. could you make that jib in 18 oz cloth to which the reply was,"are you planning on storing it on edge".Bilge

Re: How old are your sails?

First thing I did to my Contessa was install roller furling and adapt my 120% genoa to the roller. When I took over the boat in Biloxi, Mississippi, it blew 25 knots all the way to Mobile Bay. With working jib and reefed main I was uncomfortably overcanvassed.
Second thing I did was order a new main with 3 deep reefs and jiffy reefing.
Now I can control sail size, quickly, and sailing now brings me much happy.
I then installed a new Yanmar 1GM-10 and motoring now brings me much happy.

The cutworms are in the hollyhocks, again!

Re: How old are your sails?

The Raudaschle sails on Dreamspeaker appear to be original to the boat (1974) and all still set well, especially the fully-battened main. 

Buying for long life and not wanting the main to go baggy, I'd buy another fully-battened sail because the battens preserve the shape much better over time and minimize the tendency of the draft to move.  You may have to change the nylon straps after years of use, holding the battens in at the luff.  They are under strain due to compresssion of the battens and they eventually chafe through.  I haven't seen any sign of the pockets wearing through at the leech, however.

Some of the brand-name sailmakers have offshore operations in places like Sri Lanka.  North's budget priced Cruising Direct sails are made there, from the same materials as their regular sails, and cost enough less to be worth a look.  If you buy a standard Dacron sail with the premium brand on it, chances are it'll be made offshore anyway.  In Toronto, North is the successor loft to Raudaschle, and the same sailmaker is still in charge, so I ordered a new 153% North genoa.  With the boat show discount,  it only cost a couple hundred dollars more than the CD sail and had better details, such as radiussed corner patches instead of triangular.  It also has fantastic shape and I've been very happy embarassing C&C 27s with it in light air -- but it was made in Sri Lanka just like the CD sail, not locally.  I didn't mind when I unpacked the sail and found that out becase I bought it right after the Tsunami and some money went into an economy that needed it.

Boat show discounts aren't the best discounts you can get.  If you have any cash left over at the end of the season (fat chance), that's the cheapest time to buy a sail.

24 (edited by ShannonRHIANNON 2006-08-08 18:08:23)

Re: How old are your sails?

Yes, a fully battened main with three reefs does wonders for one's heart rate!   Then, learn how to reef FAST!   Learn to do it by yourself, and do it lots when the wind is only 15k or so...that way there isn't fear along with the panic, ha ha!

Ok, here's a story:  one fellow could not find out the year of his Contessa - he's an owner from Vancouver area.
I told him that my sail bags had a number on them.  He said he had looked and looked....and finally, just before he was going to give up, he held up the paper-thin sailbag to the light, and as he put it:  "like the shroud of Turin, the number appeared!"   

Cool, hey?!

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: How old are your sails?

Were Raudaschl sails original in 74.....? I've got the original Tom Taylor sails that came with my boat (presumably a 74?) along with another set of newer ones.  I didn't think that Heider got involved with JJT until later, and from what I understand he knew Gary Bannister well.  Heider (Raudaschl) had a Contessa 32 for a while.  Just curious, looking for anything to date my hull numberless boat....... 

What's the sail number on your boat?  I'm 79, which seems to put me early 73 or 74.....  Curious...  Cheers