• rbunn
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  • Registered: 2006-04-08
  • Posts: 8

Topic: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

I guess the common wisdom is that the "standard" tiny cockpit drains on the CO26 are pretty poor, I agree. Mine drop well down into the deep-bilge area, below the drive-shaft, cross over to the other side, and exit thru a thru-hull that has no seacock on it. I don't like that, especially since if anything went wrong, and I had presence of mind enough to figure it out, I'd have to remove the cockpit floor to even plug it. Bummer.

Right now there is a thru-transom exhaust fitting, and the thru-hull for the electric bilge pump on the transom. That's two (2). I want to run the existing cockpit drains almost directly aft from their present location (in the aft corners of the cockpit, in a little drain depression) almost straight back and toward the centerline of the boat, exiting just above the high-waterline mark on the hull. That would be a drop of about 3-inches, not much. A small amount of water would still stay in the cockpit when the boat was heeled, but not much, and the centerline is the place most likely to not be submerged under normal operation.

Then I want to install two (2) more 1-1/2" cockpit drains exiting the cockpit 3-inches and 6-inches respectively off the cockpit floor and run them aft thru the transom. The thinking being that the tiny useless drains can get the last 3-inches of water out, but if I have a cockpit full of water the 1-1/2-inch drains should pick up the load. So, when I'm done I'll have the exhaust thru-hull, the electric bilge-pump thru-hull, two 1/2" thru-hulls on the centerline below the gudgeon attachment, and close to centerline two 1-1/2" holes for the other two cockpit drains, that's six (6).

How does this sound? Sounds like a lot of holes in the transom, I know. But running cockpit drains out the side of the hull doesn't seem to great, considering the angles-of-lean that I've seen in the pics. I've not sailed this boat yet, just got it last year and am getting it ready to go sailing.

The 3-inches of freeboard thing does really complicate getting water out of the cockpit doesn't it.

Any comments would be most appreciated. To complicate matters I am planning on installing a Cape Horn windvane on the boat.

I searched the posts and didn't see anything right on my question, so forgive me if this is an old subject.

Richard Bunn
"Martha Daggett"
Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA

  • From: Horta-Açores
  • Registered: 2006-11-06
  • Posts: 5

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

She is not a boat is a sifter lolololol.

3 Reply by keelbolts (edited by keelbolts 2007-02-28 13:20:34)

  • Registered: 2007-02-26
  • Posts: 7

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

Remember, the reason the cockpit drain hoses cross is so that you can close the thru-hull for the lower drain, assuming you're heeled over, to prevent water from coming up into the cockpit.  The Co26 is near the top of my shortlist for next boat.  I'm suprised that a boat as well build as a Contessa would have a hull penetration without a thru-hull.  This seems to be more prevalent in plastic boats. I couldn't sleep nights knowing that the only thing between my having a boat and not having a boat is a $3.95 hose clamp...

  • rbunn
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  • Posts: 8

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

I don't see how there is room to put a seacock on the cockpit drains, the way they are now, nor in any configuration where they would cross. I suggested heading out the centerline of the transom specifically because heeling is going to have the least effect there. There is barely 3-inches between the cockpit floor and the HWL assuming the HWL was put on the vessel correctly.

Will having the small cockpit drains exiting the centerline of the transom cure the taking-on-water-when-heeling issue?

I couldn't sleep nights, or relax days for that matter, without access and options on a penetration below the water line. Right now there is neither.

How do other CO26's install the cockpit drains for big water? I don't know about you folks but a cockpit full of water is a big deal to me.

Right now the boat is not a boat for lots of other reasons. at least not one I'd like to have to depend on. Hence the concerns re the cockpit drains and transom holes. But laughter is good for the immune system, so I'm glad to help folks stay healthy.

Richard Bunn
"Martha Daggett"

  • Registered: 2007-02-26
  • Posts: 7

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

I don't own a Contessa, so I don't know what others do about this problem, but I do know that I will never put up with a hole in my hull w/out some way to close it.  I'm not sure I'm fully getting what you're describing, but I would put my drains at the front of the cockpit, cross the hoses, and place thru-hulls where I could easily reach them.  There is nothing wrong with taking them out below the waterline.

  • From: Ile-Perrot, Quebec, Canada
  • Registered: 2005-09-11
  • Posts: 24

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

On my 1975 Contessa 26, there are 2 gate valves installed. See picture on the gallery mtce and techical

Michel F's Website

  • From: Victoria B.C.
  • Registered: 2006-03-11
  • Posts: 171

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

Mine are crossed with valves and backing plates,all above the shaft line,so it is doable,if cluttered.The only water I have had in the cockpit is going to weather in about 25 knots of wind and six feet of peaky glop,when a few gallons slopped in,no big deal,just nice sailing.Less volume would be nice,but thats how they are.You have to remember that typically in conditions where you will fill the cockpit ,two thirds of the water just goes out again when the boat rolls,partly carried on by it's own momentum,so the whole drain size/cockpitsize thing is perhaps a bit over stated.I don't worry about it.

  • From: Ottawa, On
  • Registered: 2005-03-10
  • Posts: 353

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

for those of you that remember the great smh - he had a few things to say about ball valves on cockpit drains.  they're buried under the cockpit floor - and the only time they'll get exercised is never, so when you do want to use them they won't budge.  space is a concern.  cross up the drains, use the best hose that you can buy, double clamp on the thru hulls.  replace every 5 years, regardless of whether you think the hose is ok for another year.  as for drains thru the back of the transom - you'll have wet feet in a following sea...... it's not that deep of a cockpit - my main concern would be to get most of the water off the side decks as quickly as possible and let the cockpit drains do their job.

stefan_d's Website

  • Registered: 2005-07-08
  • Posts: 36

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

Richard - first thing to do before modifying the boat's design is to sail it! I would not do major surgey until you understand how it all works under sail. The cockpit drains on my contessa are 1.5" ID,(I think!), sounds like maybe yours are smaller? Inadequate or adequate is really decided by where and what conditions you sail in. For any coastal cruising, the cockpit drains are absolutely fine. For offshore cruising, the bigger the better.

The reason you'll never see cockpit drains out the transom smaller cruising yachts is because they will put more water into your cockpit then they'll remove - by a LOT. Think it through - you're talking getting 3 inches of drop. The only time you're going to get a cockpit full of water is in breaking seas, likely over 12 feet, and likely following seas. Picture your boat going down a 15 foot cresting wave. Where are those transom cockpit drains in relation to the cockpit now? They are a foot or more above your cockpit sole and under the pressure of many tons of seawater, and are flooding your cockpit rather than draining it. That would be a very big problem because while they would drain a bit after you crested the wave and the trim of the boat went the other way, (bow up), they would drain slower than they flooded as the outside pressure of the ocean would be greater than the pressure of the amount of water in the cockpit.

So assuming your concerned about the drains because you're going to be sailing offshore, I would suggest 1 of 2 things, or both:

1. Get an SSB and a subscription to a routing or weather service for sailors. The best way to avoid a swamped cockpit is to never put yourself in the conditions that would cause it.
2. If you really want more efficient drains, leave the existing routing right where it is, (crossing over is very important again not to flood your cockpit); get out some power tools and make the existing ones bigger! It should not be a big job and would probably make them quite adequate.

Ball valves or no - I think Merrill was right and wrong. He's right in that they would likely get frozen and are hard to reach so might be no help; on the other hand if you have them on the cockpit drains, they definitely won't hurt. My 26 does have ball valves, and one was frozen when I bought her. I've since freed it and if you grease them once a season, and just operate the levers a couple of times every time you have the engine hatch off they won't freeze again.

Another note on transom openings in following seas - you generally DO find the wet exhaust outlet there, but often find no way of closing it. Just as large following seas could flood your cockpit if you installed drains there, they could, (and have on many boats), also flood your cylinder head with seawater, so would definitely recommend installing a way to close the wet exhaust outlet to the sea if going offshore.

  • From: Lake Erie, Dunkirk, NY
  • Registered: 2005-03-11
  • Posts: 272

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

Question, I am having to change out my drain hoses and because of the last owner messing up the drain pipe elbow on starboard side so now I have only a straight down pipe to connect to.  Putting on a new elbow is impossible as the side of the engine compartment area is too close to screw it on, as I bought the piece without thinking.  The heavy synthetic hose is real tough to bend to make the connection to the drain pipe.  One thought was to use flex hose but all of them say not for use below waterline.  Any thoughts? ~jklee

  • rbunn
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  • Registered: 2006-04-08
  • Posts: 8

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

So, I don't mean to be tacky here, definitely not my desire. And I will be installing valves on all the below-water-line hull penetrations, for sure. Probably on the exhaust line as well.

But . . . what good are cocks on the cockpit drains when they are installed below the cockpit floor? If the cockpit floor is not watertight, cockpit water floods the bilge, not attractive. So I assume your floor is screwed down pretty tight. Wouldn't it take me some time to get that thing opened up so you can access the cockpit drain thru-hull cocks? If so, that location seems to me like no cocks at all, since you can't close them in a hurry anyway, and in a hurry will be the only way you will want to close them if your vessel is filling up with water.

So, if you choose to effectively not put cocks on those two (2) hull penetrations, what criteria do you use to pick which ones you do put cocks on? Just the ones you can get to? Why are they more vulnerable than the ones you can't get to?

Just seems to be a little disconnect here, that's all. Just asking.

I appreciate all the comments. I have two other smaller boats with transom drains, they work fine - a little water in, a little water out, no worries.

rb

  • From: Victoria B.C.
  • Registered: 2006-03-11
  • Posts: 171

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

If you don't have a valve then you definetly can't close it.You can deal with minor failure,and maybe catostropic failure of a part.You can do maintaince and even remove a hose to get more room to work on something or to clear the drain of an obstruction like a beer bottle cap which I have had to do more than once,unfortunately.That single thing is enough reason to valve the cockpit.I t is sound practice.

13 Reply by tubatooter1940 (edited by tubatooter1940 2007-03-12 05:29:39)

  • From: Alabama Gulf Coast
  • Registered: 2006-06-30
  • Posts: 60

Re: Cockpit drains and transome thru-hulls

When I bought my 1980 Contessa, My marine surveyor went bonkers when he found seven thru-hulls protected by seven bronze gate valves. He personally removed the gate valves, knocked out the old bronze thru-hulls with no new hull damage and installed white plastic thru-hulls and black plastic seacocks.
He also insisted I buy cone-shaped cork plugs to fit each size thru-hull and tie it with a lanyard to each seacock. If the worst happens, a hole in the hose and the seacock won't close, I can cut the hose away and pound a prefit plug down the hole.
When I had a wooden boat I had no holes in the hull. Now I have a Contessa with seven. I would not drill any new holes without considering possibly enlarging the holes already there, with larger thru-hulls and seacocks.

The cutworms are in the hollyhocks, again!

tubatooter1940's Website