Topic: Heeling

Hello Everyone!
We are brand spanking new Contessa owners. New to sailing as well and thought the Contessa would be a safer boat for a couple of newbies.

Question:
We were just out on the water today, fairly light winds of about 10 - 15 knot, sailing with a 150% Genoa. While beating up against the wind, the boat came across and heeled sharply, dipping the side down with water coming into the cockpit. Seems the boat heels very easily and doesn't stiffen when it comes to a certain angle the way we had expected. Then again, it could just as well be operator error considering who the operators are.

Are the Contessas considered "lively" when it comes to the wind and heeling or is there any chance that there is a problem with the ballast? The hull number has been painted over but we figure the boat is from 1976. The boat had been up on the hard for about 4 1/2 years and had only been in the water about 4 months when we bought it. The bottom was newly painted and the shipyard indicated she was sound with no blisters.

Aja and Jens

Re: Heeling

Welcome to the group, Aja & Jens!

There's nothing wrong with your ballast as she is heavily ballasted with more than half her wight below.  It would appear that you were just over canvassed for the wind conditions you've described.  Since you're new to sailing here are some suggested sail selections that you may consider depending on the true wind speed which might exist:

0-12 Knots--------------------------Genoa and Full Main

13-18 Knots-------------------------Jib and Full Main or Genoa and Reefed Main

19-26 Knots-------------------------Jib and Reefed Main

26-32 Knots-------------------------Jib or Reefed Main

The others may have other suggestions but it gives you an idea which you can adjust to suit your sailing comfort zone.

José

Re: Heeling

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If the memories are better than the dreams then it's all over.....
[url=http://www.contessa26moonshine.me.uk]www.contessa26moonshine.me.uk[/url]

Re: Heeling

Andrew, I guess you do this type of filming for a living, very nice and fun to watch!

Re: Heeling

thanks for all the good info. I think we are both feeling better. We probably have a different comfort level when it comes to heeling because we are so new. We are sailing up and down from Finlayson Arm and up to Brentwood Bay on the east side of Vancouver Island and it is good practice. The water is fairly protected but the wind is constantly shifting due to the mountains.

Love the film. What a good looking boat. It is fun to see a well-kept Contessa. We have some work to do in that regard. It has been cold and rather miserable all spring but now the weather is starting to cooperate and we can get some work done on the trim, the deck, the port holes, the interior... well, the motor seems to be just fine, thank heavens! We figure by the time we have scraped and sanded and varnished and painted and whatever else it takes, we will become good friends and the boat will be a comfortable second home.

Next week we are going to make a concerted effort to find the hull number. We have tried hanging out the back with a camera to take a photo of the numbers there but there are several layers of paint over them so we are hoping to take an etching and see if that gives a better result. The boat has the name, Uhuru, in faded letters along the side. We believe the last owner was not happy with the name and had it painted over but never got around to changing it before he was unable to sail and the boat was left stranded on land in a shipyard on Gabriola Island where we found it. So the documentation is scarce - there are no registration papers from previous owners - but we believe it is from 1976. Certainly, it is the older model but with a wood cabin sole. We also are pretty convinced that it is a Canadian-made boat but even that is only a very good guess.

Re: Heeling

Re: Heeling

Thank you so much Jose for leading us to the registry for Uhuru. We have now found an e-mail address for the owner who registered the boat in 1993 and we have sent off a quick missive. I don't know how you register a boat when the current registration has expired and there are a couple of owners between us and the last registered owner and no paperwork... One would think that a 30 year old boat could have numerous owners and that paperwork dating all the way back could be difficult to find. The "chain" could easily break. There must be some method of registering an older boat even though the paperwork is no longer in circulation.

We'll see. But you have brought us a huge step forward, no doubt. We tried to do a search under the name and came up empty. Then again, we did not know anything about the ship registry or how to access it. This forum has already paid us back many times over in information and we are only 24 hours old.


Aja and Jens

Re: Heeling

Hi Aja & Jens,

You've done the right thing by contacting the last registered owners of Uhuru.  In short, you have to get an act of sale form which can be downloaded from the Transport Canada/Marine Division website which I've provided for you and have the last registered owners of Uhuru fill out the form with whatever address they had in the registry for continuity's sake if they've moved since then.  You now have to both put your names down in this form as the buyers (for the amount, put down a dollar + other considerations) and submit the original document (in ink and not a copy) to the Ship Registrar's Office (Nanaimo) and pay the fee for the transfer/registration/name change if you should choose to do it and before you know it, the vessel is officially yours.  Just tell the old registered owners that they're stilll on the hook for the boat if ever an accident were to happen and that should pretty much give them the incentive to do the transfer.  One requirement, however, is that the buyers (Aja & Jens) must be Canadian Citizens in order to federally register the vessel in their names.  If not, the vessel must be de-registered by the old registered  owners at which time you as the new owners must get a licence for the vessel.  As for the previous owners between you and the last registered owners, they don't really matter at this point as they don't appear in the registry's records.  As far as Transport Canada is concerned, they've never really owned the boat.  They just paid long term rental for its use.  You'd be surprised at the frequency of this very same ordeal.  Hope this helps.

José

Re: Heeling

Hi Aja & Jens,

I forgot to include that you also have to fill out a notarized Declaration of Ownership (Form 84-0002) along with the Form 6 Bill of Sale.

José

Re: Heeling

Wow. JC, why don't you write that up and I'll post it on the main part of the site. I know a lot of people have been wondering about the process for Canadian vessel registration and transfer of ownership.

Re: Heeling

Hi Adrian,

What I've described above is pretty much what you have to do as it has happened to me first hand and thanks to the good folks at Transport Canada and Clifts Marine, I was able to put enough documentation to properly register my vessel.  People don't seem to realize that registration/licensing is a necessary component to operating a marine vessel much like owning and driving a car.

José

Re: Heeling

Hi Aja and Jens!
Well, welcome to the HEELING factor! ;-)  I too panicked and was sure the boat was going to roll right over my first big wind...which was about 15k back then....it's all relative! ;-)
I start to think of reefing at around 12k!!  And then I do a second reef at 18k or so, and above 25 I am in my third reef, very handy.  I usually roll my genny in first, then reef, as she is very headsail-driven, so will seem a bit skittish with too much genoa...I learned! ;-) 
And, if your rail is in the water, that is usually as far as she'll go, unless it is above 40k...I was in 30k in a Howe Sound outflow, and only had two reefs (hadn't got the third sewed in yet) and had the genny rolled in to about 50% showing....and she was GREAT...I was nervous at first, but when I realized she was happily charging along, keeping up with a big Beneteau, and not getting very wet, I relaxed and enjoyed my first real windy day! ;-)  She was heeled over so the rail was in the water, but only bits of water got on the rear side deck...but I have a scupper at the aft end of toe rail, so no water sloshes into cockpit, and I haven't been out in that kind of weather yet...;-0
Have fun, reef early, and don't worry if you are only one reefed, who cares, you'll be the last one out there, I have also noticed....even though she's small, she does not get pushed around like the fin keels do.  Have fun!

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: Heeling

Hi Shannon!
Thanks for all the good information. We have decided to work with the working jib for the next little while and also practice reefing. That day, not only was the railing in the water, but the genoa was floating... pretty scary. No doubt we misread the wind conditions. It seems pretty tricky in the Finlayson Arm where one moment you have no wind at all and suddenly it blows right across and sends you in a quick heel. Boats north of Brentwood Bay were flying around with both genoa and mainsail up but we must have caught some winds in the south that were somewhat stronger. No other boat was reacting the way our little boat was. Our traveller is the old style and we couldn't let the wind out of the mainsail because the line got stuck. It all happened so fast that we had to step on the tiller to swing her up against the wind. Our hearts were pounding, that's for sure. We wear flotation gear all the time - we realize we are too new to take that kind of thing lightly but a trip into the drink in late April wasn't really our kind of sailing...

Jens is the big reader on sailboats and he has read that with an older Contessa you can risk having the iron ballast simply rust away from inside leaks, leaving you with one very light and very unstable boat. We are just hoping that it is operator error and, after all, we came home safe and dry with everything but our pride intact. It is definitely a steep learning curve. We have "sailed" on really big boats in the merchant marines and seen our share of hurricanes, even a couple of typhoons, but standing almost upright on the side of a little boat with your toes seemingly inches from the water certainly was a different kind of experience. I have a feeling we can thank the boat for being so forgiving of her new owners. smile

Re: Heeling

If the ballast had "rusted away" your boat would be sitting very high above its waterline. It would be something you'd notice rather right away. I've never heard of an iron ballast rusting to that extent.

As you said, you most likely misread the wind conditions. In general, the Contessa will develop excessive weather helm which can only be cured by reefing. As Shannon said, the boats tend to get a little skittish when the main is reefed and the 150% genoa is out.

Reef early, reef often. I think I read that on the Alberg 30 board, but it applies to the Contessa equally well.

Re: Heeling

I always have visions of my boat going right over too....and yes, they can be knocked flat down so the sails are in the water if you have your boom, and therefore your mainsail, right in to centre line of boat.   It is always handy to keep the mainsheet right in your hand so you can let it out quickly and give yourself time to think!  She does have a big mainsail for her size, so you will notice her heel quickly.  Many times I leave the dock with the first reef already in, ready to hoist already reefed!   And I can roll a genny in faster than anyone, I bet! ;-)  So, "when in doubt, let it out", meaning the mainsail...let it out so far it is flogging and flapping, and then just pull it in so it just stops, and then you know you aren't in too tight...I was guilty of that too.  And, make sure both sails are the same width apart, ie: parallel to one another, so the "slot" between them is even...that makes a big difference, I learned that too!  And yes, in big wind, you do not need the big genny...go with almost the smallest sail you can...and then practice, see what she does...that's how I learned, by myself on a Tuesday afternoon...and yes, around here, no wind then 10k...good practice!  Have fun, and practice reefing!  A nice, tidy reefed sail will make you feel very safe! ;-)

“You get a boat for only one reason, because you want one.  If you’re worried about being practical, forget boats.”

Re: Heeling

I converted my 120% genoa to roller reefing and my new main got three deep reefs and jiffy reefing. I was not happy with my Contessa until I could quickly control sail shape and size. I decided against a jib any bigger than my 120% because I singlehand a lot and I'm not young. I used that same excuse to justify the purchase of a new Yamaha 1GM10 diesel that is good for 6 knots or more if I use one sail with it running 80-85% revs.

The cutworms are in the hollyhocks, again!

Re: Heeling

I too learned the hard way this week, and a reef and just working jib worked wonders in 20 plus knots. She was trucking right along at 5.5 to 6 knots.
Here is another question: How do people handle gusts when the autopilot is steering? Do you set it up with one extra reef already in?
Is there a guide line for windforce that would knock down the boat? I have learned that the forecasters here in SoCal are more often wrong than right about windspeeds.
Did my first 6 and a half hour outing in 20 plus knots! yeah

Re: Heeling

Windspeed to knock down the boat = quite a lot, most likely combined with a large swell coming from the windward side. Unless you're doing a long passage, you shouldn't be out sailing in anywhere near the conditions that would knock down the boat.

The Contessa is quite narrow, so initial stability is relatively low; however, there's a lot of ballast below, and the further you heel, the harder it is to heel her further - as the ballast is lifted higher and more wind spills off the also heeled rig.