Topic: general comments

Re: general comments

this is gonna be a good one - this is exactly what I did but I sure didnt have the facilities that Tim Lackey has.

Man i wish I had a shop like that.   If anyone wants to know where there are problem areas on a Contessa 26, this will the story to watch!

3 (edited by rbporter 2008-12-01 05:55:41)

Re: general comments

stefan-d,
You and all the other co26 people on this website have given me the energy for this project. Not the $, but the interest and energy.
My intention four years ago when I bought the boat was to do the refit myself. I could never have misjudged the time and cost of the project more. Just do it!  lLife is short.
I will very much appreciate any comments, suggestions, feedback, etc. during this project from all of you.
Bob Porter
s/v EQUINOX
Ipswich, MA

4 (edited by stefan_d 2008-12-12 13:51:22)

Re: general comments

so i've been following equinox's progress, and i just saw something that about made me almost cry.

those nice flush thru hulls, which are now definitely unserviceable after removal by means which are about the furthest thing from
non-destructive, are hard to find.  maybe i just didn't have the $$ for new ones, but I sure took my time removing those puppies and sandblasted them and reused em.  you need a 2nd set of hands.....

i'd be asking about that genoa track as well.  it sure would be a shame to do all of this work and then have those suckers leak.  its not impossible to get them off and back on again.  i dont know about the newer boats (ie clearance between the side of the hull liner and headliner) but i dont think that they were ever made with a 1 piece cabinliner (hull liner and deck liner are separate).  it's a bear of a job, hard on the fingers and definitely  requiring the help of a patient volunteer (in my case, Dad!)  but well worth it after a long slog, rail buried, and you don't have to worry about , well, water down below.  tool of choice for nut access is a set of 30 and 45 deg, bent nose, long reach needlenose pliers.  a flashlight and inspection mirror help as well....

Re: general comments

Stefan,
Thanx for the note on the genoa rails. I think these are the only things on deck that Tim is not removing probably for the reason you gave. I will email him.
I have to say that having someone else with his skills  do the refit, in the fraction of the time it would take me and best  of all to being able to watch over his shoulder via the web at 150 miles  away, is more then I could of  hoped for. She will be a beautiful co26.
Stay tuned.....

Re: general comments

shes gonna be gorgeous!

everywhere you go, someone will ask you if it's a contessa 26.  don't even be surprised if someone asks you if its a new one......

Re: general comments

Wow!  Well reading about this on-going winter restoration will fill my chilly, NY winter nights.  Doing such a refit is amazing in itself, but having a web-accessible chronology of the step-by-step process, with pics, now, thats just holiday season eye candy!!!

Enjoy the adventure; I sure am.

Don

8 (edited by stefan_d 2009-01-13 11:49:20)

Re: general comments

she certainly is coming along.  i would see if tim can get some nutz/washerz on the backside of them stemhead bolts.  how thick is the alum plate that is more or less holding up your mast?

i boxed in the area in question from the inside, layed 8 or 10 layers of cloth, and then filled in the offending bolt holes / forepeak 'box' with thickened west system - from the top.  she's not going anywhere.

i posted a picture from when i did the job, no glass on there yet.  guessi forgot to take that picture....

any engine choice nailed down yet?

Re: general comments

I've only seen the photo of the stemhead backing plate. Getting nuts on these bolts, if possible, would probably mean another 6" hole with a plastic screw cover. It may come to this...
As of this moment it's going to be the 10hp Beta. Beta is the clear choice but the 10 or the 13.5 hasn't been. Same engine just different governor for desired hp @ increased rpm. The biggest factor seems to be the small prop aperture. There is a 3/8" clearance with the 12" prop. It should be 1.2". We are currently looking into 11" props, two or three blade. Always something!
We're interested in hearing about your engines, props, etc.

Re: general comments

i have a yanmar 1gm10, 2.6 gearbox,  and with a 12" x 10 RH 2 blade sailor, there is around 5/16" clearance.  this seems to work alright.  doesnt seem to make  difference wheter i run at 2500 or 2750 revs, i get around (guessing, no knotmeter) 5 kts in flat water.  i can make 3.5 kts over the bottom by the gps (which i borrowed...) in flat water heading into a ~2kt current. 

these was a 11x13 rh 3 blader on there before, and i might put that back on for next season just to see if there really is that much difference between the two.  i really could use the help backing up

11 (edited by stefan_d 2009-01-14 14:24:54)

Re: general comments

just looking at beta - is there much of a price difference for the 10 vs 13? 

i'd go with the 13, run it as a 10 at max 3000 revs cruise, and then you;ve got some extra punch in case you really really need it


while i'm at it, you might want to start with an fresh installation of an auxiliary oil pressure gauge and temp gauge if your panel only has murphy lights.  temp gage is a little harder, but i'd at least tap off for an oil press gage.

Re: general comments

Stefan - "murphy lights"?  I've got a panel with a green light and a red light.  The green light seems to be a power/starter indicator, as it only goes on when the key is turned for ignition, or turned on, or after the choke is pulled to shut down (mine is a 10hp single Farymann...in fact the whole set up seems pretty much original 1984).  The red light is a mystery however, as it goes on in the same instances as the green light, but also after about an hour straight of runtime, will begin to flicker slightly, then more strongly, until it is fairly bright and consistent.  Given this has caused some worry, have repeatedly checked the oil level, temperature, water from exhaust, etc. with all reading normal.

Out of frustration I've gone ahead and ignored the red light, with apparently no impact, although whether my imagination or not, there does seem to be an increased "slap" noise from the engine, seemingly related to the cylinder

Any ideas what the mystery red light is all about?

Re: general comments

murphy light/murphy switch - warning or interlock circuit that monitors a vital parameter (engine oil press, coolant temp, head temp, etc) and operates in open or closed position only.  upon opening or closing the indication circuit in question, a light will come on or go off, warning buzzer, etc, all the way to a point on something big and expensive it will actuate a shutdown solenoid, or something of the like.  the name comes from murphy's law....

in my humble opinion, the warning lights are great, but a gauge set in accompaniment is even better.  most oil press light circuits will open at around 5 psi,  at which point youre pretty much dire straights anyways.  if you had an oil press gauge/temp combo and were watching it occasionaly, you would most certainly catch an oil pressure loss or overheat condition in it's infancy, long before before it becomes a situtation or an expensive repair.  it allows one to develop a set of operating parameters much narrower than the warning lights allow.

14 (edited by rbporter 2009-01-16 12:27:20)

Re: general comments

Stefan,
There is no price difference between the 10 and 13.5. Same engine except for hp @ rated rpm.
The CT distributor strongly suggests the 13.5 and if possible enlarging the aperture so we can swing a 12 or 13" two bladed prop with more blade area. The current 12x12 two blade from the 10hp Bukh installation won't work that well. My concern is these motors should be run at least 80% of their rated rpm. This means I'll be running at 2880(80% of 36600) vs 2400 (80% of 3000) for the same hull speed. The slower rpm seems a no brainer! However this leaves less reserve power when motoring into a wind or when the alternator needs the juice for a low battery.
Tim, the refit man, strongly suggests the full panel, tach., water temp., voltmeter and oil pressure. This will be a given in either motor.
Anyone looking for a low hour Bukh???? Drop in running or buy for parts....???

Re: general comments

the 10 is just a derated version of the 13.5.  it makes 10hp at 3000 RPM, and likely just has a rack stop to prevent advancing past 3000 revs.  if you go for the 13.5, you have "access" to these extra rpms, all the way to 3600.  kind of like a merc 6 and 8 hp outboard - the two share every single part, the 6 is rated at 4500 revs and the 8 is rated at 5000.  same engine, one is detuned.

if you get the 13.5, and cruise it at 3000, there is no difference between the 13.5 at 3000 and the 10 at 3000.  far as i can tell the reduction gear options are the same for both.  so in theory a 10 running at 2400 will actually move you slower than a 13.5 running at 2880, because they are the exact same engine with the same reduction gearbox.

being identical engines, the 10 is actually running at only 66% full power at 2400 rpm, because it really was designed to be run at 3600 revs and make 13.5 hp.

go for the 13.5, and a full gage cluster from the start. 

dont do any work to the aperature, swing an 11" 3 blade on there, 13 or more pitch and you should be alright.

what is the reduction ratio that youre looking at?

16 (edited by rbporter 2009-01-18 09:25:05)

Re: general comments

The motor will be delivered with the std. reduction, 2:1. We'll make the prop selection based on this. Talking further with the Beta dealer, Joe DeMers at Sound Marine in CT and Tim, they like you are suggesting the 11" three bladed prop. I'm sure this will be a very nice combo. for this boat. Both these guys have been great to work with.

Other considerations at this time is the standing rigging. The former owner was preparing for some offshore sailing and in his preparation upped the size of the standing rigging to 1/4" wire w/ 1/2" toggles. To accomodate the 1/2" pins the chainplates were overdrilled. What's that adage about "only as strong as the weakest link?" I'm now in the process of seeing if the ball sockets on the mast will accomodate a ball with a smaller wire. If so then I'll rerig with 7/32" 316 ss with 3/8" pin turnbuckles with  new chainplates. The new chainplates will be 316ss 1/4"x 1 1/4 or 1 1/2" "x 10".
Something else which might interest you guys is my plan to have Tim make a laminated oak beam for under the mast step. This is best done while the bulkheads are out and before he starts to rewire. My thought on this is that although there doesn't seem to be to much of a problem with deck compression in these boats but that it is still better to help prevent a problem rather then try to slow or correct a problem once it has begun.
It has also been suggested that rather then a traveller we install a rigid boomvang. This never occured to me but sounds like a great idea. The angle of the mainsheet to a traveller would not be ideal considering the length of the boom.
I welcome and thankyou all for your interest and comments/suggestions on this project.
Thanx....

Re: general comments

i like the beam - and i'll be watching that one because thats on my to do list for this spring

when i re rigged i went with 7/32 wire (316SS) and  all sta-loks.  i had to make new masthead forks (.1 thk 316) with 3/8" pin dia. (theyre in the gallery) i also made new chainplates, out of .25thk x 1.25 flat bar for the new turnbuckle forks (3/8 pin).  had to lengthen them from stock to get the pin high enough for the fork to clear the deck, and left a bit of extra meat on top... 

sta=locks are the cats pajamas, although the price these days is a bit discouraging (i bought mine 4 years ago, right after i bought the boat and i'm glad i bought em then!)

never even thinking about it before, i like the idea of a rigid vang, never looked at it as an option (cost).  i went with 2 4:1's off the back of the boom to the stock pads (a frame setup) and the only complaint that i have is that it prevents me from ever having a bimini.

are you going to go with the beta 13.5?

Re: general comments

Yes, the 13.5. Will order it today.
Riggingonly emailed me this am to say 7/32 wire can be used with the "cupple diameters" I sent him. This will allow me to make the new chainplates with the 3/8" pin rather then reusing the 1/2" turnbuckles with the 1/4" wire. My plan, if I rerigged which is where I seem to be going, will include mechanicals where the wire meets the deck.
I hope I can keep the 1/4" wire in the forestay as it has a Furlex furler on it.

19 (edited by stefan_d 2009-01-24 06:46:24)

Re: general comments

she is looking great!

i have to say that i am pretty partial to your choice of colour... (see gallery...)

there is absolutely nothing practical about painting a boat dark blue (or boats in general, but thats another discussion for another day) - but they sure look good!

20 (edited by rbporter 2009-01-24 13:36:20)

Re: general comments

stefan-d and all you other co26 people,
I would encourage you to look at and bookmark  the "Plastic Classic" website (Google it). Little specific to Contessas but all kinds of stuff  that is applicable to what we are doing with our boats.
This is were I found Tim, the "man" doing EQUINOX and the website "guy."

ps Watch for the Hinckley gold cove stripe coming soon...