• From: Parry Sound, Ontario
  • Registered: 2008-07-06
  • Posts: 27

Topic: Leading lines aft

I would like to install a second halyard winch for my main halyard (at present there is only 1 winch on the mast).  When I spoke to the boatworks where I keep my boat, they suggested that the winch be mounted on the coach roof instead, and that I run all lines aft with the exception of the headsail halyard since I have a roller furler.  If the point of running lines aft is to stay in the cockpit, I will have to accomodate the main halyard, vang, downhaul (I have a sliding gooseneck), and at least 2 reefing lines for each of the two luff reef points.  I have two questions:  What is the best way to install the turning blocks at the base of my mast (my mast is simply stepped into a 1" depression on the deck with no mounting hardware present at all); secondly, the halyard is wire, connected to 3/8" line.  If the wire section doesn't reach the bottom of the mast with the sail raised (something I have yet to measure), can I just leave the halyard as is, or does it need to be replaced with nylon line?  This would also mean replacing the masthead sheave.

Thanks.  Carolyn

  • From: Montreal
  • Registered: 2005-04-22
  • Posts: 259

Re: Leading lines aft

Do you NEED the second winch?  It seems like a lot of effort and expense for something not needed in my experience.  I ask because my main raises hoists easily and is tensioned from the bottom.  For this season, you might experiment by swapping the halyards from side to side.  Put your main halyard on the winch side and raise the genoa without the winch (it lives on your furler so once you raise it you are probably doing little with its halyard). 

As for running lines to the cockpit, I know it is very fashionable on modern boats and those which are raced.  However, it always seemed to me that I must still leave the cockpit in order to make sail changes.  For example, with halyards and reefing lines lead to the cockpit I could put in a reef, but would still have to clamber over the deck to properly secure the main sail's tack and to tie the reef points.

Let us know how it goes -- you have a fun project.

Christopher

  • From: Parry Sound, Ontario
  • Registered: 2008-07-06
  • Posts: 27

Re: Leading lines aft

Hi Christopher:  Thanks for your input.  I'm not convinced about taking the lines back - it's going to be quite expensive.  However, I sail single-handed almost all of the time so there is a safety factor whenever I leave the cockpit, although I will have jacklines installed for this season.  I'm still thinking about it......

Does anyone else have any thoughts about pros and cons?

  • From: Belle River, Ontario
  • Registered: 2005-03-20
  • Posts: 143

Re: Leading lines aft

Hi Carolyn

Well Capella has all the lines coming to the cockpit... and I enjoy that especially in realy rough weather... however Christopher has a point... you do need to properly secure the sails and reef points... I sometimes just wait and do them later... when its a bit safer.

jose

  • From: Parry Sound, Ontario
  • Registered: 2008-07-06
  • Posts: 27

Re: Leading lines aft

Thanks Jose.  Do you have any photos of the blocks at the mast base, organizers and clutches/cleats that are on your boat?

  • From: Montreal
  • Registered: 2005-04-22
  • Posts: 259

Re: Leading lines aft

Hi Carolyn!

You (we?) have chosen a great boat for single-handing.  In my experience the boat likes to look after itself.  It heaves-to well and finds its own neutral state if you leave the helm alone.  Once the boat settles down it is easy to do deck work.

Jacklines are a great idea and are also on my list of projects.

Until then, my approach is to always wear a PFD when sailing alone. 

There are many examples of turning block arrangements on the web.  Generally blocks are attached to a stainless steel or aluminum plate that is sandwiched between the mast and the mast step.  Another approach is to fit cheek blocks to the sides of the mast but there is not a lot of space on our masts for such mountings.  Something to check.

Cheers!

  • From: Parry Sound, Ontario
  • Registered: 2008-07-06
  • Posts: 27

Re: Leading lines aft

Thanks Christopher. 

There's a lot of discussion about the best place for jacklines to be positioned:  sidedecks as opposed to being on the centre line.  I posted a link to a blog about placing the lines along the side of the boat, rising to attach to a shroud, and then returning to deck level.  I've never seen this arrangement before.  As with the other placements, it also has its pros and cons.

Cheers.

Carolyn

  • From: Belle River, Ontario
  • Registered: 2005-03-20
  • Posts: 143

Re: Leading lines aft

Hi Carolyn

Give me a couple of days... I'll get you some pictures

jose

9 Reply by John Clark (edited by John Clark 2010-05-05 18:28:52)

  • Registered: 2005-06-17
  • Posts: 15

Re: Leading lines aft

I made this very upgrade last season, when the original main halyard winch finally packed it in.  I can send you some pictures. 

When I bought the boat, there was already a newish Harken winch on the cabin top to port, for the genoa halyard, with organizers and clutches on both sides for genoa, spinnaker, vang, reef 1, reef 2 and topping lift.  For some reason the topping lift was lead back to an ordinary horn cleat.  I added a matching winch on the starboard side, with a larger organizer and a double clutch for the topping lift and main halyard, and removed the cleat.  I now have genoa, spinnaker and vang to port, with reefing lines, lift and main halyard to starboard.

The mast has a formed stainless plate at the step, with "wings" on the four sides for attaching turning blocks.  This would be an easy, inexpensive item to have fabricated.  Did you say whether your halyards are internal or external?  It's easier to change the lead of external halyards. 

It's true that you will still have to go forward to hook in the tack of the sail when reefing.  However, one goes forward twice every sail to raise and lower the main, whereas trips forward to reef are occasional.  I really don't enjoy scrambling forward to hoist and douse when sailing alone in lumpy weather, usually in the shallow water off a harbor mouth where the incoming waves pile up! If the main halyard is marked for the first and second reefs, it can be eased the right amount before leaving the cockpit to hook in the tack.   (I've thought about installing a single-line reefing system with cheek blocks on the mast instead of a hook on the boom--has anyone tried this?)

If you're worried about the length of the wire halyard, you could replace it with line.  The sheeves at the masthead aren't hard to replace.

The hardware cost does add up.  So does the total number of bolt holes you have to drill for the organizer, clutch and winch.  If you grind out the core of the cabin top and fill it with epoxy around the holes, which you should, the job will take longer than you think.   

One challenge with leading all your lines aft is finding a neat place to stow the coils and keep them untangled.  The cabin top under the dodger is a good place. 

Speaking of the dodger, if you have one, consider where the lines you lead aft will run in relation to the fastener buttons, and place hardware where the dodger won't interfere with it.

Hope this helps,

John

  • From: Parry Sound, Ontario
  • Registered: 2008-07-06
  • Posts: 27

Re: Leading lines aft

Hi John:  Thanks for the information.  My halyards are external, so they won't be hard to route at the mast base.  I'm going to leave the genoa halyard on the winch on the mast.  It's a 130 and I plan to keep it on most of the time.  If I have to change to a smaller sail, I will hopefully have the forsight to do it before I leave the dock.  There is no hook on my boom for the luff reef points.  The previous owner led the reefing lines from padeyes on  the boom, up through the reef points and back down to a cleat on the mast.  This was the arrangement I had on my old boat and it worked well, so it will be these reefing lines I will lead back.  The points on the leech are reefed in a similar way, but the lines are routed through  cheek blocks on the boom and then through cam cleats about mid-boom.  I think I can haul the topping lift and reef the leech without leaving the cockpit as they are now.

I've sailed a 24' Bluenose for a number of years.  This will be my first season sailing my Contessa as she sat at the repair dock all last season for an engine rebuild.  None of the lines on the Bluenose led back, and the headsail was hanked on.  Keeping the boat headed up into the wind and raising and lowering both sails while sailing single-handed proved to be a challenge on a number of occasions when the wind and waves were up.  I think bringing the lines aft will be well worth the effort and expense.  I've seen the plates for the mast base, but I'm not sure how it would work with the step that I've got on my boat.  I was planning to install mast-base blocks, or swivelling stand-up blocks.  I haven't decided which, but the mast base blocks are less expensive. 

If you've got any photos of the hardware on your boat, and your deckplan, that would be great.

Thanks.

Carolyn

11 Reply by John Clark (edited by John Clark 2010-05-07 19:31:23)

  • Registered: 2005-06-17
  • Posts: 15

Re: Leading lines aft

A rectangular stub on the base of the mast steps into a matching recess in the cabin top.  The mounting plate for the halyard blocks has a rectangular cut out that fits around the stub.  I highly recommend this fitting, rather than drilling a lot of holes and putting deck blocks or pad eyes around the mast.  Besides the lead blocks for halyards, reefing lines and topping lift, it attaches the vang and lead blocks for the spinnaker pole lift and downhaul. 

I still use the genoa winch on the mast quite a bit.  It depends on the size of the sail and whether I'm racing or singlehanding.  When racing with the #1 or #2 genoa, I hoist at the mast and belay the halyard on a cleat to keep it from slipping; the rope clutch lets it slip just enough to put a slight pucker in the luff of the sail.  When singlehanding with #3 genoa, I hoist from the cockpit.  I also rig a light downhaul line to the head of the genoa, run it down through the hanks, and lead it aft along the rail.  That way I can raise and lower the sail in seconds without venturing forward.

I always found that Bluenoses pounded hard in a chop.  They have a combination of overhang and full, slightly flat bow sections that encourages pitching and pounding.  In that respect, I much preferred my family's gaff-rigged, wooden Dark Harbor 17 knockabout, a 26 foot boat of similar appearance but considerably finer ends.  With two main halyards (peak and throat) plus the jib, running backstays, no engine, and a swing mooring in a crowded harbor, singlehanding it was an education in boat handling!  There were also no winches.  One tensioned the halyards by hauling back on the standing parts like a bowstring, then taking up the slack. 

In the days when winches were rare and costly, old timers used to rig a small block and tackle, hitched at one end to the standing part of the halyard and hooked at the other to an eye on the deck.  This would still work fine and cost a lot less than the gear we need nowadays to "simplify" our sailing!

Regards,

John