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The Contessa Corner → Posts by Virago Deb
Hi Bill,
A fellow who knows you fetched up here in the Great Lakes - the vessel is Cool Change, a Dreadnaught ketch (a fiberglass Tahiti ketch). The boat and owner are moored in the harbour where I'm currently working. Had a good visit with an interesting chap on an interesting boat. Small world.
Brian,
Did you ever find out more about this storm riding sail? I've been thinking about something like this lately but not as a riding sail. I was thinking of using one sheeted off to one side to push the stern down and the bow up when heaving to. In other words, I was wondering if one could use it in place of a trysail for heaving to with a similarly sized storm jib at the bow. I have acquired a second, tiny, storm jib and may try messing around with it hoisted on the back stay.
Thanks Dave,
I'll see what I can uncover (pun intended) next fall when the boat's out. It would make sense that our boats would be the same given that they're only 6 hulls apart. If I can remove a plastic cap and press out the pintle that would be (hopefully) easy. Then I'll likely replace it with the same custom made pin as the other two.
Thanks! However, "....it was easy!" sounds like "here, hold my beer", that being the start of many a story with a painful end! I appreciate the encouragement though.
Deb still....I went back through this thread to look for hints and Bertinol mentioned someone having a machinist drift a pin out a pintle assembly etc. Bertinol, if you're out there, please give more information if you can. It turns out you were right all those posts ago about rudder thump and a loose pintle, the pintle just hadn't got loose enough to show itself yet. V. is floating now so no more pintle poking until fall, and I still have the heeby jeebies about whacking my rudder with a drift and hammer, but maybe that's just me being cautious (a.k.a. chicken).
Hi Dave,
In case you haven't noticed, I come and go on this website - not always handy to a computer. Anyway, the bottom pintle assembly on V. is not hidden in any way that I can see, except maybe a covering over the top of the casting that makes it appear to be a cup instead of a ring. I don't have a clear memory of it at the moment. If our boats are similar, how did you get the pintle out? Was it, indeed, held in with a pin or was yours threaded in the first place? The fibreglass you removed - did it encase the entire pintle mount assembly or just the top? I'm surprised at the variation between boats, even those from the same yard and not too far apart in hull numbers.
I replaced my cabin top winches lately and was glad to see a nice solid thick bit of decking. Regardless of the variations, these boats benefit (as we all know) from good boat building. I've seen a few wrecked boats doing my job, some of which were making for salt water and bound for long journeys. Once you see a boat broken open (like an egg) you can see that surface dressing can hide a multitude of design and construction sins. I remain grateful for my tiny but tough little ship - wobbly pintle forgiven.
Arrrgggghhh!!! I just typed a longish technical bit and got booted off for my efforts! Synopsis: Top two pintles replaced with S.S. carriage bolts with shoulders that reach the bottom of the gugeons, most of threaded portion lopped off, nut put on and drilled through both for a pin. Perfect fit. That took almost all the play out of the rudder. Still a bit at the bottom assembly which is the only one with the pin-in-a-cup, but not enough to risk monkeying with it yet. The sloppiness isn't in the fit of the pintle and gugeon so much as in the way the pintle wiggles on the pin in the cup. One possible solution for this I dreamed up (if needed next year) is to squish a little silicone or 4200 or such up into the cup just before assembly and let it set thus making a rubber bushing of sorts in the cup. It may dampen or remove the wiggle. In the mean time it looks like my tool bag exploded in the cabin...
Side note: applied some Molycote on parts prior to assembly - it's a great assembly aid/lube for anything in the marine environment and will not negatively effect rubber or plastic O-rings or gaskets. Our ship's engineers buy it by the case.
A question for Bertinol: I have V's rudder off and home. The lower pintle assembly is the worst for sloppiness and it sounds like it may be similar to what's on your boat. The head of the pintle is up inside a cup mounted on the leading edge of the rudder. It looks like there may be a pin holding it in and I did put a drift to it and whack it with a hammer a few times, but I'm afraid I'll "fix it 'till I break it". In other words, I'm not certain it's a pin I'm hitting and I'm not sure how hard I ought to hit it! If this sounds like the way your boat was put together and it is, indeed, a pin holding the pintle in, maybe I just need a bigger hammer (yikes! Don't wanna break the fitting out of the rudder...). Does this sound familiar?? Can you upload a picture of what you've got? Can your friend pass on a few pointers?
Anybody put boom gallows on a Co.? I'm starting to ponder that possibility - best not to re-invent the wheel if someone has done it already.
Update - signs of wear are now visible on lower assembly (V. has three sets). Sound was the harbinger. Note to self....
I've had to replace my back stay and one lower shroud in recent years. It was recommended to me to take my old stays to Klacko Spars in Oakville, Ont. as that's who many riggers/outfitters in Ontario send their work to anyway. They can replace our rigging quickly and for a reasonable price. They will ship, of course, but it's best if you can send/take them the original so they get the length right.
I singlehand my boat and I do not have any sort of autohelm or vane steering. When Virago is steering herself I can reef the main with the wind abaft the beam, but when the wind get up and I have not reefed in time it can get hairy, or when I want to take the main down all together. I don't like to head up into the wind to reef, drop or raise a bit of main if we're rollicking down wind because I find things can get even more hairy. One strategy I've used to drop or reef is to sheet the main in to the centerline to take some of the pressure off it, but I'm open to other ideas. What I'm thinking about right now is when I'm running in heavy wind with just the headsail up and then decide I want to heave to - I need a bit of main up to heave to. Getting that bit of main up can be a handful when alone. How do you other Co. sailors manage this?
Possible answer: We had our boat on a mooring in Hamilton Harbour (at the Burlington club) all though the 70's and 80's. The conditions would have been similar to what you describe and worked very well. The moorings were maintained by the Hamilton Harbour Commissioners - you could contact them and ask what they do as I'm sure they've got them down to a science by now.
Ok, this is the THIRD and LAST time I'm going to try to address this topic. Here's hoping I don't get booted off! The readers digest condesed version is as follows:
Bertino, I've seen a classic case of exactly what you speak of - an avid, skillful, frequent sailor of a 24' boat bought a 33' and pretty well stopped sailing.
Bilgeret, do you actually live on your boat? As in, that's your residence? If so, very cool.
More philosophy: I don't think I need any encouragement to keep my boat, rather I suspect I'd regret swapping up and would need more reasons to make the jump. I'll re-frame the original question to see if that makes it clearer. The question could be posed as "how does one manage in a large volume boat?" How do you brace yourself across a cockpit 10 ft wide? What keeps you from dragging your pencil across your chart when you slide off the navigator's seat? How do you do anything on the high side of the cabin without a hiking trapeze? Maybe the answer is that I haven't had the "luxury" of sailing on a bigger sailboat in nasty weather. Maybe the trade for more comfort in the majority of conditions outweighs occasionally feeling like a pebble inside a barrel rolling down a hill. Most of the bigger boats I know in these parts motor when the going gets tough, and that is no improvement most of the time. Sailing WITH bigger boats is a good idea though for, as Bilgeret points out, they make a fine party platform. Ok, here goes the "submit" button...
Afterthought: Speaking of head whacks, did I mention I have a retired work helmet on V. for the day the barrel starts to roll? At least it's a small diameter barrel!
Ian, it sounds like you may be in Britain. If so, I'd like to have a conversation with you off this website. I'd like to explore setting up a sailing trip over there. If my guess is correct, let me know if you want to have a conversation elsewhere.
You are a clever monkey, aren't you? Can I put you on speed dial?
Mild brain storm. Thinking about the possibility of quick motion of the boat causing the rudder thump. I have some small sea anchors that were salvaged out of some retired life rafts and I may try dangling one or two of those off one or both quarters to dampen that motion. Not only stop the thumping (hopefully) but make the motion of the boat a bit less active in those conditions. As for the threaded pintles, I scratched my head about that too - one does not normally use threaded things for clevis pins or such, but without a comparison I wouldn't say for sure. It would make sense that the threads should be near the end like a carriage bolt, but these are very thick and beefy brass or bronze bolts and didn't look like an stop-gap for a lost pintles. That's also why I had considered bushings. I'd be curious to know if other later boats have this set-up. I did run my finger around the inside of the gugeon when I had them apart and it didn't feel scored or worn.
Maybe I'm too wordy, or maybe I dawdle when I'm thinking about boat stuff, but there have been times when I've written an entry, gotten it just so, then clicked to submit my entry and been told that I can't access the website - I've been logged out! Ack! There goes an hour of my life I won't get back. Is there a time limit to be on here? Or am I doing something wrong? It's not like the screen is sitting there inactive and unattented - I'm typing or fixing spelling or re-reading to check for coherence (something I have to check for once in a while....). So why is it booting me off?
Ian, you've refinded that idea nicely. I'll have to check the possibility of up and down motion. When I had the rudder off (lets say three years ago) I had to fudge with the adjustment of the mounting nut to allow the rudder to swing freely and the the hole for the pin was clear, so there may be enough play to allow the motion you describe. V's rudder is not wood and it is some heavy, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have motion (or intertia) that is counter to the hull once in a while. Thanks for the fresh lead. I wish I knew if my pintles were original or just whopping great bolts that replaced originals. Mine has the castellated nut, but I'm trying to remember if the thread went all the way up the shaft of the pintle or not. I think they do, and there's a hex head top to it a la bolt. Are yours like that? In the mean time, it doesn't happen often and if the hardware isn't broken I shall, perhaps, resist fixing it - Securing the rudder head instead of just the tiller might cure it.
On a slightly related topic, I completely re-worked the hardware assembly that makes up V's gooseneck when I realized that when the main was reefed, all the tension of the main sail on the reefing horns was being held down by nothing but a light cotter pin! And that cotter pin was, indeed, chewing into the base of the boom end casting. I had my tallented friend make a new gooseneck pin for me out of a S.S. bolt whose only job now is to hold the boom to the mast fitting. I did away with the reefing horns and put a S.S. snap on either side of the now beefier shackle that holds the tack of the main to its fitting on the boom, and it's now those snaps that take the vertical load of the halyard when reefed.
Note added later as a result of later posts: The new gooseneck pin was made from a long carriage bolt. The treaded part was cut off and a hole drilled for a cotter pin.
Hmmm. Interesting. On my boat, which is an '85 JJT, the pintle is threaded with a large nut turned up from the bottom then a washer and pin through it below that. I had the rudder off a few years back to re-do the wood on it and at that time the pintles looked good, though that doesn't mean they haven't changed! When the boat is on the hard I try to make the rudder wiggle in its mounts and it won't do it (turn yes, but wiggle or thump - no). It could be wear and I'll check that again. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the treaded nature of the pintles - if the rudder can raise and lower by a fraction of a turn of the threads when it gets to slopping back and forth. I'm wondering now if the nut and bolt type of pintles I have are not originals - maybe these replaced originals that were, indeed, worn. If that's the case, maybe a thin bushing would help if there's room to fit one in, or get someone to spin out some new ones as you suggested. Talented friends with lathes are good to have.
Ok, hate is probably too strong a word but....
Virago and I spent a month together this summer. She is the best boat for singlehanding I could ask for for all the reasons we CO sailors commonly share. I love and trust my boat. However, when I manage to crack my head on some overhead piece of said boat when down below I sometimes think that (I hate to say it) a different, slightly bigger boat might be a good idea. Besides an A29, I can't think of anything I'd like as much or respect for performance, construction etc. Temptation sometimes strikes mind you. So here's the point of this posting:
Can anyone who has sold a Contessa to move up to a bigger boat, or moved up then come back down again to a smaller boat comment on the pros and cons of that decision? I'm thinking Adrian might have something to say about this.
When I whack my head I want another boat, but when I'm sailing and I can go down below and not fall across the cabin, reach pretty well everything from a sitting position, and move around with at least one hand and/or foot braced and gripping I think the small interior of my boat is not a bad thing. I think I'm also touching on the idea of boat when sailing vs. boat that at anchor or in a marina much of the time. People who have made long passages in a CO can chime in on this too - Contessa as long-term home.
Related question: When at anchor in choppy seas Virago's rudder will sometimes get to banging and thumping. Lashing the tiller will help but not eliminate it completely. Haven't yet figured out what causes it to be able to fix it. I can say that she does not have that nylon washer in the assembly and I was thinking of adding some sort of washer or bushing. Anyone else have this problem? Better yet, got a solution?
Peter, where are you?! Have you gotten any farther on the dinghy project? As for navigating this website, I'm a "flint knives and bear skins" kind of gal - I just click on things until they work. On the home page (I think that's where it is) there's a heading at the top to register, and there appears to be a heading on this page (reply to message page) to write a private message so maybe you could reach me that way if you have questions. In the mean time, my project now is to take the leftover fabric (I rather over estimated when I bought it), to make a bag for the boat to keep it from getting sun rotted or full of water in wild weather.
I've spliced a fair bit of braid for work and fun, most of it used. Fortunately I have and old, old set of splicing instructions published by Samson when it first came out. In those instructions are two methods of splicing - one for new rope and one for used rope and I can tell you, using the method for new rope on used rope will drive you nuts! If you don't have the guide for used rope, let me know and I can photocopy it and mail it out, or mail it to someone (like Adrian maybe...) who had the technical knowhow to upload it. Heck, maybe it's already out there in cyberspace. Furthur to this conversation, I've found that the newest types of braid do absolutely require the "new rope" technique as they seem to be really slippery and splices in new rope using the "used rope" technique will slip a bit. The used rope method on used rope works well and is easy to do. Also, I freely admit to cheating and I use a fid a bit smaller than that specified for the diameter of the rope I'm using just because it is easier to shove it through. To get the slightly-too-fat line into the smaller fid, I use wraps of electrical tape to form a pointy end on the rope that can get shoved into the open end of the fid and taped in place (I use lots of tape!) I've also been know to skip the fid altogether and fake it with a long bit of wood or aluminum (hmmm, maybe a big knitting needle...) and some electrical tape to hold it all together (tape to create a smooth, tapered fit onto your fake fid that will feed into the cover/core neatly). Ages ago, commercially sold fids weren't aluminum tubes, they were bent wire that you could make yourself out of a coat hanger.
Hi all,
Back on line so must be back at work. Bummer. Anyway, I went through similar thoughts re: do I change my rigging or leave it original. Virago is an '85 and her standing rigging is uniform, and I decided to leave it as originally delivered for the same reasons as given several posts earlier - there's probably design stuff going on that I don't want to meddle with. I did decide to replace my back stay due to it having quite a kink in it when not under load (mast down on the ground). I took it to Klacko spars in Oakville, Ont. as they still support Cinkel spars (and pretty well any other spar too!). Got it replaced to match the rest of the existing rigging (same fittings etc.) for under $200.00. For anyone who doesn't want to D.I.Y. their rigging, Klacko is where many other marinas and boat shops send their work to anyway. End fittings are European (Swedish or Danish methinks), wire from one of the Koreas.
The Contessa Corner → Posts by Virago Deb
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