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The Contessa Corner → Posts by bnold5000
Michael,
I have a 71 Contessa with the same 31 and something length mast and an 11' boom.
My spreader bars are 1 1/4" diameter with a wall thickness of .060" They are 30" long with an aluminum insert that holds the wire in the end that adds another 3/4" to their length.
Hope that helps,
B
John,
Thanks for the tips.........I'll give 'em a try.
B
Hi John,
Nothing like a devils advocate to help us find the right answer! I'm no expert either....maybe the two of us will figure this stuff out. Thanks for your ideas and input.
I think you are probably right about the tension not being that big of a deal if you are willing to go with a more slack rig than a lot of pro riggers (like B. Toss -- Rigger's Apprentice book) would recommend. And, as it states in the manual that comes with the Loos Tension Gauge, a lot of people do sail with more slack in their rig than is recommended for fear of "breaking something."
However, they also state in that manual in the "additional information" section that:
"Contrary to popular thought, a slack rig is more punishing on a hull than a properly adjusted rig. Insufficient tension will reduce the loads transmitted to the hull. Slack rigging will punish the spar and rigging needlessly by allowing excessive movement, chafe and shock loading. Modern fiberglass hulls should not be damaged by properly adjusted, tight rig. (then some other stuff here, followed by) For the properly tuned rig the leeward shrouds will not go slack under normal sailing conditions. The lateral stiffness of the mast and the fore and aft stiffness of the spreaders is reduced by a factor of 2 when the leeward shrouds go slack. This important structural characteristic is not generally recognized."
They got my attention with this stuff. To wrap up, you are right about how all the spreaders seem to attach to the hull in the same way structurally. And it would be ideal to have all the same size wires and terminals for simplicity. I think the only question is whether the mast and deck can take a little extra load, if you do want to tighten the 3/16" lowers to "proper tension" which is about 10.6%. I think the designer might say that the boat and mast could take a little extra tension and it would be OK, but I just don't know, yet -- These are some pretty ridgid little boas. They may have just used the 5/32" lower shrouds mainly for cost savings.
A little off the topic of this specific shroud debate (for those who are reading this and wonder about the tensioning of the other wires) the manual with the Loos gauge gave some pretty good info on this subject and was backed up by the info in the Toss book. The 3/16" headstay is tensioned to about 16% of its breaking strength (750 lbs) and the backstay is tensioned so that the mast is straight with the headstay tensioned as mentioned (it will be a lower tension because of the larger angle in which it leaves the mast). Then the shrouds are tensioned at 10.6% of their breaking strength (500 lbs for 3/16" wire and 350 lbs for 5/32" wire). That's it.
B
Hello All,
I just finished reading the chapter on standing rigging in Toss's Rigger's Apprentice book. Here are some interesting things I learned that I wanted to share with everyone that are relevant to this thread.
First of all, I've become uneasy about replacing the lower 5/32" shrouds with 3/16". Here is why: Standing rigging wires are tensioned as a percentage of their breaking strength. 5/32" 1x19 stainless rigging wire has a breaking strength of 3300 lbs versus a breaking strength of 4700 lbs for 3/16" wire. And when you use the charts that come with the Loos Rigging Tension Gauge (available at their website) this means that the lower shrouds would be tensioned to 500 lbs with 3/16" wire instead of the 350 lbs with the 5/32" wire. With 4 lower shrouds, that is an extra 600 lbs of tension. The mostly vertical component of this extra force would be about 500 lbs of extra compression load on the mast, and the other (horizontal component) of this extra tension would be more load on the shroud connections.
The bottom line here is that their is some design stuff going on here that probably ought to be considered. I know that "deck compression" is one of those "contessa issues," apparently on newer boats. Do we really want more force on the deck?
Having said all this, the book says that it is a popular theme among blue water cruisers to try and make all the rigging wires the same size for the obvious reason of having to minimize the number and cost of spares for repairs.
I've emailed Jeremy and Fiona to see if I can get a little "builder input" on this issue and I also asked them for the original rigging specs. When I hear back, I'll make sure and post this stuff.
Best wishes,
B
Hello Everyone,
I just read in Toss's Rigger's Apprentice book that my sheaves at the masthead need to be replaced because I changed the halyards from the steel cable/rope kind to the all rope kind. The book says that the halyards will experience excessive chafe as they are pulled into the little groove that was meant for the steel cable. Seems to make sense. So I'm shopping for new sheaves and having difficulty finding some that are the right size. The old ones are 2 5/8" outside diameter and 5/8" wide with a 3/8" diameter shaft but all I'm finding for sale at places like Defender are 2" outside diameter sheaves made of delrin, etc. And when I made a little 2" cardboard sheave to see if I could just go ahead and use a somewhat smaller sheave, it doesn't look like it will work because the rope will chafe on the track on the mast.
Has anyone faced this issue when they replaced their old halyards with all rope halyards? And if so, where did you buy 2 5/8" sheaves like the ones that you are replacing (except no groove for steel cable)?
thanks much,
Brian
After talking to the rigger at Defender, I decided to go ahead and lock stitch all the eye splices on my new running rigging with ordinary pre-waxed 5-ply flat construction polyester twine that I had in my sail repair kit and purchased from Sailrite #100035). The results came out very nice and I'm pleased with it. I like the fact that the stitches lay flat and are less likely to be exposed to abrasion and the white color makes the lock stitching almost invisible on the new double-braid rope.
This rigger reminded me that the lock stitches only hold the splice in place when not under load and that the strength of the material used for the stitches is not crucial.
B
John,
That is very interesting. Thank you for your input on this posting.
That sounds like a great idea how you just beefed up the lowers so you could make everything out of the same wire. I think I'll do the same. It doesn't seem like it would be that much extra weight aloft either. I also love the idea of simplifying the whole thing.
Brian
I just safety pinned it until I can get the lock stitches in place. I'm still trying to figure out what I should be using for that. The Samson video said to use "braided nylon twine" but none of the places that sell rigging stuff know anything about that. Does anyone know?
B
Hello Everyone,
Just wanted you to know what happened with the big splicing mystery. Turns out, the fairly new-looking double-braid rope that came with the boat was the problem. A fid simply would not go through it to make a class 1 eye splice.
Once I gave up trying to practice on the that stuff and started trying to splice the brand new Samson double braid (which I was pretty nervous doing since I still hadn't made one splice successfully yet), it was pretty easy to do.
Bottom line, I guess, is that all double-braid is not created equal even thought it looks remarkably similar.
Brian
Hello Everyone,
I'm wondering if anyone has the (manufacturer's) STANDING RIGGING SPECIFICATIONS for our Contessa sailboats that they could share (wire sizes and tensions)?
With a Loos Gauge and this info, getting the standing rigging tuned up should be a fairly common-sense affair. I'm planning on just hoisting the old rig and tuning it to specs, and then adjusting the wire lengths a little here and there for where ever I want them to be on the turnbuckles when I make the new ones with Norseman fittings.
Thanks,
Brian
Hey Everybody,
In my last post, I said that I'd be launching my circumnavigation just about now (early January, 2014).
I just wanted to let everyone know that I have changed my schedule and decided to delay one more year. I was off on my estimate of how long it was going to take to do a complete re-fit and I couldn't get everything done before the cold set in down here in Missouri. I did manage to get about 75% of all the stuff done and should have no problem with the new schedule.
If anyone's interested in all the details, they are available on my website (maxedoutvoyages.com). Just click on the news button.
Happy New Year!
Brian
Hello All,
As I begin to learn about standing rigging and what the best plan is for replacing mine, I am considering whether I should just buy the wire myself and a bunch of "swageless" terminals and build my own or have a boatyard with the fancy compression machine build my rigging wires by pressing on the standard swaged terminals.
I'm wondering what opinions are out there from fellow contessa owners about whether swageless is as good as swaged?
It does seem pretty cool to be able to simply cut the wire and tighten down a compression-style swageless terminal and tighten it down with a couple of wrenches. I'm thinking that with an extra swageless terminal and some extra wire.........fixing a broken stay or shroud at sea would be pretty easy too, unless it broke up high.
Any guidance on these standing rigging matters would be greatly appreciated.
Best wishes,
Brian
Hello Everyone,
Preliminary Info:
I have decided to go ahead and replace all of the standing rigging before the circumnavigation.
I was just about to have the old ones duplicated exactly when I learned that this could end up being a very expensive mistake due to the fact that if the old cables had stretched, the new ones would be too long.
So now, I'm going to hoist the rig and tension the wires to the correct amount. Mark the place where the turnbuckles are exactly when the rig is at the right tension. And then release enough tension on the turnbuckles to unfasten the rigging wires. And then set the turnbuckles back to their "proper tension length."
Only now do I know that I have the proper length for each standing rigging wire.
My Questions:
What is the proper tension for the standing rigging? And how do you know when you have it set?
(I have 3/16" cable for both for and aft stays and upper shrouds and 5/32" cable for the 4 lower shrouds)
What is the "ideal" position of the turnbuckle when this tension is set?
Thanks much for any advice,
This is one of the last big projects on the boat as I near the end of the re-fit.
Brian
ps -- reading "lone voyager" about Howard Blackburn right now........can't put it down......great book.
Thanks for the advice Fessalo,
I'm going to try it again with some brand new Samson double braid.
B
Hello Everyone,
I've recently purchased a splicing kit made by Samson for double braid rope.
I've been practicing but just can't get it. I've followed the directions extremely carefully and its really quite easy until I get to the part where I have to reinsert the Core through the Cover from Point T to Point Z. Once the Fid gets to that part of the cover that already has a core inside it (from Point X to Point Z), the Fid jams and gets really tight and............
It simply will not go through even with extreme force.
On all the videos online, the rigger just pushes it though like nothing. I'm certain that I am using a 3/8" line and a 3/8" fid.
The rope was a piece of line that I got when I bought the boat. I don't know what brand it is and it probably isn't Samson.
I'm wondering if there might be some slight specification differences between rope brands and maybe there wouldn't be a problem if I was trying to splice Samson Rope.
I'm hoping maybe there is someone who has had this same problem when they were trying to teach themselves how to splice double braid and can give me some advice.
Best wishes to all and Happy Holidays,
Brian
Hello Tim,
Yes, Little Minute is a beautiful boat isn't it. The guy who did that refit was one heck of a craftsman.
In order to trace the owner of Little Minute, you need to do this:
go to sailboatlistings.com and keyword search: Contessa
Scroll down and you will still see the old listing for this boat.
Click on "details" and you will see all the info, including the contact phone number of the owner.
Cheers,
Brian
maxedoutvoyages.com
No I haven't tried them. Thanks for the tip Jim.
Brian
I have a IYE traveler system and only one sliding stop with spring pin.
I did find a source for new IYE sliding stops, but they've changed the design and they don't match the one I've got. They are also very expensive.
Does anyone know where I might find a sliding stop to match the one I've got. Its for a 32 mm track and is 2 1/8" x 2 1/8".
There's got to be a chandellery (sp?) with a bucket of these things laying around somewhere if I just knew who to call! ha
thanks,
Brian
something I should also mention is that the wheels are wider near the hub (on one side only)
Hello Everyone,
I just got my 4 new wheels to replace the cracked ones on my IYE brand (England) traveler car.
The old wheels didn't have a washer installed with them. It was just a wheel held on with a retainer clip.
The new wheels came with little plastic washers. Does anyone know which side of the Delrin wheels to place the washers?
I'm guessing that I should place the wheel on first and then the plastic washer and then the metal retainer clip but figured that I probably ought to know for certain before install.
thanks much,
Brian
Hello Bertinol,
That is a great suggestion and that's exactly what I'm going to do (switch halyards over to that low stretch 3/8" polyester braided -- Samson XLS). Thanks for the tip.
What about the topping lift? The cheek block at the masthead is the original little fiber wheel with no bearings and cracked. If you were going to replace the topping lift and the cheek block at the masthead, would you go with the original 1/4" or possibly 3/8 inch? (I'm tempted to beef up the topping lift in case I actually had to use it for something that required some "beef."
Brian
maxedoutvoyages.com
One more (related) thing.
I've got to replace all of the running rigging on this boat.
And as long as I'm going to do so, I wonder other Contessa owners would advise me to do about that "hybrid" port halyard that is steel cable and rope?
If the cable looks fine (no meat hooks, etc.), would you just replace the rope, or would you switch it to an all rope (3/8" Dacron) halyard?
B
Thanks for the replies!
Bertinol........I think you figured it out. The port halyard was an 1/8" steel cable of about 30' that was spliced to a 35' length of 3/8" braided line and the starboard halyard was all rope (65' of 3/8" line). I'll bet that steel cable part of this "mystery rigging" was the cable part of the other halyard.
And the tape is definitely rubbery and not like a foam type.
Marc........thanks for the solving that mystery.
I love this website.........its been such a big help solving problems while I'm putting my first boat through a complete re-fit.
Best wishes to all,
Brian
briannold@maxedoutvoyages.com
Hello Again Everyone,
I just got done going through all the rigging that came with the boat and there was only one thing I couldn't figure out what it was (a 30' 1/8" steel cable with a small shackle on one end and a small block on the other with 4' of 1/4" rope on the other side of the block. It looks like it might be used to tightens something down that is 30' away by looping the rope through the block and increasing the advantage?
Does anyone know what this strange piece of rigging might be used for?
Best wishes,
Brian
ps - The only other mystery item that came with the boat was the rubbery tape that looked like it might be used to seal radio connectors, only it was not sticky on either side? (also pictured in photo) Just curious, does anyone know what this weird tape is used for?
The Contessa Corner → Posts by bnold5000
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